Native 24P/25p settings/problems discussion

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NavinRJohnson

Member
(First post. Please go easy on me :)

With thousands of posts about various hack settings, results, new versions of ptool, etc., I am having trouble determining which settings would get me 'relatively reliable' 24P recordings (with a Transcend Class 10 card) considering that:

* I prefer not to have tons of mud and jello in what I record
* I prefer not to use a tripod when recording
* I don't really care about the bitrate otherwise
* I don't care if it's 1080 vs 720
* I don't care if it's MJPEG or AVCHD

Thanks!
 
"The new phone books are here!!! The new phone books are here!!!"

(Sorry, couldn't resist.)

I've been using the "jobless c settings" on my hacked GH1(3) and have had reliable and excellent results so far…

- Class 10 Delkin Devices SD Card
- Kit Lens / 20mm f1.7 Panny Lens / Zeiss ZF 35mm f2
- 1080/24p Native AVCHD

Shooting handheld with the kit lens (OIS) does wonders with reducing any "jello" effect.
 
The Native 24p setting, at least according to my tests, always causes strange data artifacts that can cause the write error or a camera lockup no matter whether anything else is changed or not.

Stranger still, nothing odd seems to appear visually (again, according to my tests).

Has anybody been able to associate the "rogue frames" etc. to anything you can see?

Chris
 
Reliablity is relative. What one person considers reliable another doesn't. Can you live with the occasional camera crash and consider that reliable? Personally I consider reliable as zero crashes and so far I haven't seen that with 24P native on any settings using my class 6 cards.

The most stable setting I found for 24P native was with the "B" settings and not touching the GOP settings. I still had intermittent card errors. That said I now use the "B" settings with 24P native unchecked and I can't get it to crash no matter what I throw at it. Downside is obviously unwrapping the clip and I think the 24P native stuff looks better. It's a trade off. Reliability vs features. Honestly I found the 24P native to be pretty reliable upon first use but later tested it on a static shot with lots of high detail movement (tree/bush) and it consistently crashed. If you don't see yourself shooting a lot of stuff like that (and frankly who does), then 24 native might work for you. A faster card seems to lessen the problem.

As a side note, I haven't seen any issues with rogue frames aside from others saying they exist. Some have reported odd frame rates (24.971), pulsing or stuttering, but I haven't seen any of that. I've had zero problems editing or working with native footage aside from the otherwise well documented card write errors. The native stuff looks awesome so I have fingers crossed that the hack team will get it sorted out.
 
People are just upgrading left and right with almost no knowledge of the camera at all. It is just amazing. A few are reporting all kinds of problems while the majority are having no trouble at all. Vitaliy is still working on this hack and it still has ways to go. I have been aware of this project since he proposed it. I have read every single post in every single thread since the beginning. I know my camera left and right. All about avchd and mjeg. Pulldown, the works. A lot thru Barry Green's unbelievable knowledge about anything video and camera related and posted constantly here. Have I hacked my camera yet? NO. I am waiting for the people that know a lot more than me, especially Vitaliy and Barry, to finish the project and give their final analysis and recommendations. In the meantime I keep learning from dvxuser and waiting.
 
I can get the Native 24p patch to fail with stock bitrate settings. I don't consider it a viable option at this time.

I consider the "C" settings without Native 24p to be solid on a class 10 card. I personally have not been able to get this to fail in any form. I can get the "C" settings to occasionally fail on a class 6 card though.
 
I second what Svart just said. I have the same exact Patriot LX card as Svart and I can go all the way up to the "C" settings with 24p wrapped in 60i, and not get any write speed errors. But any higher than that and my GH-1 starts getting errors. I will be getting a Sandisk Extreme Class 10 card on Thursday though so, hopefully I'll be able to get up to a "D" or an "F"! I feel like I'm in high school again!
 
John Caballero said:
I am waiting for the people that know a lot more than me, especially Vitaliy and Barry, to finish the project and give their final analysis and recommendations. In the meantime I keep learning from dvxuser and waiting.
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I am on the side lines with you watching too =) Eventhough I have already patched it to see for myself the improvement in mud with moderate settings, I still appreciate that it takes darn good clips straight out of the box as it is.
 
Filmkid2003 said:
I second what Svart just said. I have the same exact Patriot LX card as Svart and I can go all the way up to the "C" settings with 24p wrapped in 60i, and not get any write speed errors. But any higher than that and my GH-1 starts getting errors. I will be getting a Sandisk Extreme Class 10 card on Thursday though so, hopefully I'll be able to get up to a "D" or an "F"! I feel like I'm in high school again!
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I've been able to get much higher than "C" settings on the LX card. I've been able to set my settings to roughly 70mb/s which give you an average of 45mb/s and peaks of ~100mb/s.
 
Svart said:
I can get the Native 24p patch to fail with stock bitrate settings. I don't consider it a viable option at this time.

I consider the "C" settings without Native 24p to be solid on a class 10 card. I personally have not been able to get this to fail in any form. I can get the "C" settings to occasionally fail on a class 6 card though.
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What about at 720?
 
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I've been able to get much higher than "C" settings on the LX card. I've been able to set my settings to roughly 70mb/s which give you an average of 45mb/s and peaks of ~100mb/s.
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Can you tell me the exact settings you are using to achieve this so I can test my Patriot LX Class 10 card with the same settings?
 
I just tried C settings at 24P native. Works perfectly, and the framerate imports correctly into after effects. I'm using a Panasonic Gold 16 Gig Class 10.
 
See I have tried the "C" and "D" settings, and I never get card errors or camera lockup. What I do get is random pools of pixels that stop refreshing for 10-15 frames.
 
I just tried C settings at 24P native. Works perfectly, and the framerate imports correctly into after effects. I'm using a Panasonic Gold 16 Gig Class 10.
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Mr. Brody it works perfectly for you 'cause you are a Moderator and you know much more than us mere Senior Members and bellow! No big Native Bug or 23.9111111.5 framerate for you? Wow!


what bit rate settings would make the gh13's footage look like it was shot on a red one?
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lol!
 
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I dunno John, got my camera yesterday and hacked it today. And I just tried the final cut workflow. It works PERFECTLY. In log and transfer it properly imports at 23.98. It doesn't get much simpler then this. Shoot, import, edit.

Well there's a couple things I've probably done that are different. I didn't touch the mjpeg settings at all, didn't up the bitrate there because I'm not interested in 30P. I just fiddled with the 1080P AVCHD bitrate. I didn't do the battery hack because I'm not using non namebrand ones.I'm figuring that the less I change the less the camera has to work and get tripped up over.

Wish I weren't in the middle of a move, I won't have any free time to go out and really shoot anything until the weekend, but so far this is the camera I wanted a year ago. :)

Just a suggestion for those having trouble with native settings. Try dialing back the changes you make. First remove the mjpeg hack and see if that makes a difference.
 
I dunno John, got my camera yesterday and hacked it today. And I just tried the final cut workflow. It works PERFECTLY. In log and transfer it properly imports at 23.98. It doesn't get much simpler then this. Shoot, import, edit.
Click to expand...

It worked the same for Barry, Hunter, Kholi, Pappas. You are the guys to watch and learn from.
 
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