My two-day assessment of the AF100

As an ardent defender of the HPX300 .. being on the "other side" of the AF100 is ironic to me :-)

As soon as our 5D's come back in, I'll do some A/B shots using the same lens etc so you can (hopefully) see what I'm seeing. I suspect it has to do
with the 4:2:0 encoding. If I bypass the on-board and go off the HD-SDI, it's OK (more than OK actually). Unless there's a significant
operator error issue (which is entirely possible) it just means I'm going to have to get another recorder. I was hoping I wouldn't have to.
I still think it's a very good value for the money even if it has to be supplemented. I particularly like built-in waveform monitor.

In any case, sorry to start such a poop-storm .. not my intent . I'll post pics when I can.

jeff
 
jmarkham said:
I wouldn't be raising the issue if it were theoretical. It's our experience with the AF100 so far.
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We have never seen an artifact and we have been testing and shooting with this camera since January.

We have used the output in Flame and now...also in a Da Vinci Color Resolve suite (yesterday).

We have broadcast the footage, transcoded it (DNxHD / Pro res re wraps) , exported to wmv / qt (compressed) ...no one has mentioned artifacts.

We have tested footage in After Effects and keyed it in Ultra and Key light.

Everything above is from AVCCAM natoive codec. ( not external recorders).

Hard to know why you are seeing artifacts!

BTW - I would be one that would have paid more for this camera if it had AVC-Intra... but I do realise why Panasonic positioned it the way they did. We will be getting a recorder when the right one emerges into the market. ( We also dislike SD cards with a passion)
 
I don't own the AF100....just to get that out of the way. I have owned or presently own several still and video cameras, the make/model is irrelevant really (one is AVCHD, another previous camera was AVCHD as well). With every single camera it took me AT LEAST a week to even begin getting the most out of them - so I would suggest to the OP to experiment a bit more before drawing the conclusion that the codec isn't up to par. I personally believe many AVCHD problems occur in post workflow....every software and computer seems to deal with it differently. I'm sure it's not the best codec in the world, but everything I've ever shot seems to be very clean, (at least on camera) It's only when my tired old computer can't quite replicate that quality, that I have issues. I'm not suggesting the OP has a computer as weak as mine, just that the same AVCHD footage can look great or just O.K. depending on what computer/software you have.
I just hope he takes the time to get to know the camera ...that's all. I also realize he is not new to Panasonic cameras...
I think sometimes though, certain cameras cause us to raise our expectations to a level that when we first shoot with them, we're bound to be disappointed. Then we have to remember....O.K. the camera's only as good as the time I'm willing to put into it. Reminds me of getting the D90(for stills) moving up from a D40- I snapped my first shot with it expecting a magical Ansel Adams like result only to be brought back down to earth. After a good two weeks of User Manual study and experimenting...the shots started coming together in a very nice way.
 
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Barry_Green said:
Okay, look -- to those who have expressed that "oh boy, here comes another closed thread" -- here's the deal. This forum is not a place to argue minute technical details until one's face turns blue. This forum is for users of these products to exchange information, support, advice, and otherwise enable and help people to accomplish their goals with their chosen product.
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I partly dissagree with Barry. I agree that this Forum should not be used to break the product down, but IMO users(I say users/owners and not potential buyers) should have the opportunity to say what they don't like about the product at hand. One reason for me to visit this Forum, is that it is not run by a moderator like the one of DVI, who IMO thinks he is the mighty one her on earth. This Forum is very flexible on that point and IMO is a very good thing. Just warn someone who is writing only negative about a product and only shut him down when he is persistant. The so called negative issues of the user could contribute to a better version of the product. One can always have a wishlist for a new product. Me for instance, just want a next model with 10 bits 422, a much higher bitrate and a sharper picture.
Iam willing to pay about 20 to 30% more for it than the price of the AF101. IMO that is not being destructive about this camera.
This camera is nice to have and to do lots of projects with it, but I like to have a better one for feature films. Ofcourse it should be a Panasonic and not a Sony.
 
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Hi Kenny,

Frankly the features you have voiced here have been voiced, say maybe 347 times in the last three months. I think we got the request covered. ;-) As you may or may not have noticed, but it is most certainly true, we do ask here for ideas in the planning stage. On this camera we had hundreds of ideas and we had a budget/target. We did the best of stuffing features and meeting price point.

Best,

Jan
 
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My take on this is that there are those who want the ultimate camera with no restrictions and yet want it for no more than $5000.00. The AF 100 will never be a $100,000.00 Panavision 65mm or an IMAX and yet I get the impression that some users expect it to be just that. I do not have an AF 100, but do own a HPX 3700. I feel privileged to own this camera, as I have never enjoyed such stellar performance in a camera. But remember, any camera is a TOOL nothing more. It is up to those who are using it to perform great things. I have seen wonderful pictures produced with the HPX 500, the HPX 170, HPX 300 and of course my HPX 3700. There will always be folks that are not satisfied with a given piece of equipment and what they hear about it. Nothing will ever satisfy those folks. The rest of us will use our gear, not whine about it.
 
Jan_Crittenden said:
Hi Kenny,

Frankly the features you have voiced here have been voiced, say maybe 347 times in the last three months. I think we got the request covered. ;-) As you may or may not have noticed, but it is most certainly true, we do ask here for ideas in the planning stage. On this camera we had hundreds of ideas and we had a budget/target. We didthe best of stuffing features and meeting price point.

Best,

Jan
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Is it possible via firmware update to optionally up the bitrate of the codec? Not necessarily 4:2:2, but similar to how the GH1 was hacked?

Another nice thing would be the ability to cycle through ISO with a user assigned button or the frame rate wheel :) (I hope that's firmware fixable). But that's a different matter ;)

First job with af101 next week!
 
Shoot your first job before you decide what is good for this camera.

You maybe surprised by what this camera can produce "out of the box".

IMHO..this camera already exceeds the capability of most of us using it.

"Its the man behind the camera...not the camera..that gets the result."

(Hopefully you have tested and played with your Af100 before you go out on a paying job!)
 
Shooter said:
Shoot your first job before you decide what is good for this camera.

You maybe surprised by what this camera can produce "out of the box".

IMHO..this camera already exceeds the capability of most of us using it.

"Its the man behind the camera...not the camera..that gets the result."

(Hopefully you have tested and played with your Af100 before you go out on a paying job!)
Click to expand...

But I haven't shot with a Red Epic but I have still asked questions about improvements to the spec.

I may very well be surprised by what it can shoot out of the box but it would be nice to have options.

And regarding what you wrote in brackets, of course. It would be ridiculously stupid not to. How would I know how to switch it on ;)
 
A bit off topic.... But is the avccam codec on the af100 the exact same as the hmc150?
 
DBP said:
A bit off topic.... But is the avccam codec on the af100 the exact same as the hmc150?
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It depends on if you have an updated hmc150. The af100 has the latest and best version. If you have updated the hmc150 to the very latest firmware then yes they are the same, except that the AF100 has the ability to store LPCM uncompressed audio.
 
Barry_Green said:
... except that the AF100 has the ability to store LPCM uncompressed audio.
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Which is a BFD in my line of work.

More off-topic .. Barry, on page 147 of your AF100 book, you discuss Relay-Recording and recommend
"turning relay-recording off will likely result in a simpler workflow in post."

As a P2-lover .. "spanned clips" (IMHO) actually make for a simpler workflow in post (because the clips
match the take log). I understand the VFR restriction and all .. but have you experienced problems
with Relay Recording on the SDHC format?

jeff
 
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Barry_Green said:
It depends on if you have an updated hmc150. The af100 has the latest and best version. If you have updated the hmc150 to the very latest firmware then yes they are the same, except that the AF100 has the ability to store LPCM uncompressed audio.
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I've never manually updated my firmware, but I purchased my 150 in may of 2010. Does the new firmware improve the codec substantially?
 
DBP said:
I've never manually updated my firmware, but I purchased my 150 in may of 2010. Does the new firmware improve the codec substantially?
Click to expand...

I didn't get a chance to compare before & after. All we knew about the new firmware was that it had an "improved recoder. " some people reported seeing less noise after updating but I don't know if they were doing controlled before/after testing or if it was wishful thinking or maybe it was improved.
 
OK Jan,
Thanks for the reminders; you're right about stuffing features and meeting price point. I may not agree with you on certain issues(not concerning the AF101), but I think you are handling the questions very well and IMO you know how to please a customer.....
 
I read a story about a new RED Epic camera with HDRx ( http://www.freshdv.com/2011/03/red-updates.html ).
The so called impossible shot can be shot with two Panasoncs link together on a tripod. One with the exposure set for the tunnel and the other set for the exposure out of the tunnel. In the editor you can cut and link the shots together. Who needs the RED?​
 
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