FS5: "My response to all the FS5 artefact issue complainers."
- Thread starter Bern Caughey
- Start date
Matt Gottshalk
Resident Preditor
Congratulations.
You've just discovered the difference between marketing and reality.
starcentral
Veteran
Wow what an interesting thread full of love and hate all at the same time.
What I don't understand is why the A7 mark ii at a couple thousand less on the price of the FS5 doesn't have any of these smearing artifact issues.
The reported issues may not effect every shooter and there are those who will accept it as "ok" given the form factor and price, etc.. but I certainly wouldn't be accepting to them given there are Sony camera's for far less in cost and smaller also shooting quite magnificently.
I'm sure Sony will end up addressing this in the first firmware release, they must have been pressed hard to get the camera out in time and shipping.
cheers,
What I don't understand is why the A7 mark ii at a couple thousand less on the price of the FS5 doesn't have any of these smearing artifact issues.
The reported issues may not effect every shooter and there are those who will accept it as "ok" given the form factor and price, etc.. but I certainly wouldn't be accepting to them given there are Sony camera's for far less in cost and smaller also shooting quite magnificently.
I'm sure Sony will end up addressing this in the first firmware release, they must have been pressed hard to get the camera out in time and shipping.
cheers,
I don't have the macro blocking in REC 709 (800%), Slog2 and Slog3 at 3200 iso. I also don't have them at 1000-2000 ISO in the Cine 4. I mostly shoot cars for a living (vimeo). I have no issue with quantity of light, it has more to do with quality of light. Fo sure, the interior is shot at around 1600-3200 ISO depending on lensing. I mostly use my fast primes with Ultrabooster or the stock 18-105 f4 PZ OSS lens.
I sold my C100 for the FS5. Yes the colours are not the same and grading log takes practice. I am think ing I'll get the trick within a couple of weeks since I shoot 2-3 weeks.
I sold my C100 for the FS5. Yes the colours are not the same and grading log takes practice. I am think ing I'll get the trick within a couple of weeks since I shoot 2-3 weeks.
Nirv
Carbonite Member
Sebmour, Do you have LUTCalc?
LUTCalc will make grading Log a breeze and you can build some very nice target LUTs with the Alexa LC709A gamut that will kill the saturated Sony "look."
https://cameramanben.github.io/LUTCalc/
chappelldigital
Well-known member
I would imagine they will do something.
Straight from their own video - First Look at What the PXW FS5 Can Do
Their filmaker goes on about how he shot in low-light to emphasize heat off a furnace.. says specifically shooting @ 3200 (which he says the camera was setup for as 3200 native ISO)
Says specifically "very little noise to it surprisngly" (shooting at 3200) and "Whoa whoa that crazy - even though I didn't know that [base shooting at 3200], all of our shots turned out just beautiful!" And then continues later on saying The camera is perfect for shooting weddings , documentaries, and this is "exactly the type of camera thats perfect for it". You will shoot 3200 during a wedding.
So their own marketing material -> 3200 ISO - very little noise.. perfect for weddings...
If cheaper cameras from Sony don't have the trouble @ 3200.... Sony's own marketing material for this camera suggest 3200 shooting makes a 'beautiful image' 'very little noise' and this is 'perfect for weddings'.... It should be fairly clear this camera is meant to operate without significant issue @ 3200 ISO.
Am I Crazy? I wouldn't think so.
If people are experiencing issues in the image @ 3200 ISO.. that is not improper use.. or 'user error'... Thats a bug that should (and I imaginewill)... be fixed.
Straight from their own video - First Look at What the PXW FS5 Can Do
Their filmaker goes on about how he shot in low-light to emphasize heat off a furnace.. says specifically shooting @ 3200 (which he says the camera was setup for as 3200 native ISO)
Says specifically "very little noise to it surprisngly" (shooting at 3200) and "Whoa whoa that crazy - even though I didn't know that [base shooting at 3200], all of our shots turned out just beautiful!" And then continues later on saying The camera is perfect for shooting weddings , documentaries, and this is "exactly the type of camera thats perfect for it". You will shoot 3200 during a wedding.
So their own marketing material -> 3200 ISO - very little noise.. perfect for weddings...
If cheaper cameras from Sony don't have the trouble @ 3200.... Sony's own marketing material for this camera suggest 3200 shooting makes a 'beautiful image' 'very little noise' and this is 'perfect for weddings'.... It should be fairly clear this camera is meant to operate without significant issue @ 3200 ISO.
Am I Crazy? I wouldn't think so.
If people are experiencing issues in the image @ 3200 ISO.. that is not improper use.. or 'user error'... Thats a bug that should (and I imaginewill)... be fixed.
Nirv
Carbonite Member
If they were shooting log the base ISO is 3200 therefore 0 dB gain.
Bern Caughey
Veteran
Waited over a half year before picking up the FS7 hoping the kinks would be worked out, but still feel for the early adopters of the FS5.
Seemed it would be an updated FS700, utilizing the same sensor, so a relatively safe bet. Even thought about picking up one, perhaps two, for overseas documentary work, & still might. The allure of a compact S35 Box Camera* is strong, as is the ability to stuff a pair into a carry-on.
Sony is too focused on segmenting their products. CineEI, A7r2 EVF, &/or the option for an LCD loupe, should have been built-in. It's UHD should be at least as good as the A7r/s, or GH4. I've only spoke with Juan twice, & both times walked away shaking my head. The conversations were brief, & about missing features that were easily remedied, but both times the answer was something along the lines about not offering these for cameras in their price range. Didn't matter that the competition did on cameras that cost far less. I don't blame Juan, & feel he was just toting the company line, but left thinking I'd never own a Sony camera.
Fast forward & I'm a huge fan of the FS7. I want a smaller companion/backup camera with a similar look, but the options are heavily compromised. I've looked hard at the A7 family but the rolling shutter, & 30 minutes limit, gives me pause, plus the price is close enough to the FS5 that I'd prefer that option. Not sure what I'll do, but my frustration with Sony has returned & growing.
Best,
Bern
*Side note: Since I described the FS5 as a Box Camera I've linked Zack Zamboni's essays on camera form.
The Cat and the Box, A Series of Cinematographic Essays.
Part 1 of 3, The Camera’s Form.
https://medium.com/the-myth-of-capt...-of-3-the-cameras-form-d833106e1ee#.1497hinkc
Part 2 of 3, Enegy & Design.
https://medium.com/the-myth-of-capt...f-3-energy-and-design-cf06eb0e98fd#.x4cgpgsv0
Part 3 of 3, A Camera with Two Faces.
https://medium.com/the-myth-of-capt...camera-with-two-faces-fc487f2b0491#.yvbpi6f2a
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olof
DVXuser Sponsor
My take on the FS5 is that it really is a great camera for what it is.
What do I mean by that. Well I use it as a replacement for my C100. And compared to the C100 it is far superior in HD, 422 10bit. I never had any problem emulating the "Canon Colors" with any Sony cam, just a bit of CC. And it actually has 4K so...
Is it a baby FS7, NO. And it was never meant to be a 4K Cine cam. The 4K is just a bonus. If I need Cine quality 4K I use my FS7. But in all my tests and I have had the FS5 since early December the images amaze me. I never spotted the ripping problem until I read about it by pixel peepers. And yes then it took me quite a few tries to replicate it. But the only way I can replicate it is very specific and not my way of shooting anyway, so it is almost a non issue in my mind. However I have contacted Sony and got a response from ( I won't name names here) some senior engineers and they are now looking into what can be done to improve this possible NR problem. And I am sure they will have a statement about it in a while and improvements in FW soon, just like they have on many other Sony Cams.
In the mean time I am having a great time using this very compact cam for winter outdoor shooting here in NH, mostly HD but some UHD and I love the Slomo. I can say I actually prefer the cache recording to the FS7 continuous. I am so used to the FS700 way and it uses much less media, you only record what you want, you don't burn through cards like crazy waiting for something to happen. And the media is a lot cheaper than the FS7 media.
I am sure the dust will settle here soon and shooters will just appreciate this great cam for what it is. Another tool in the quiver.
For low light I use the A7s, I only have V1 but it is great at that. For serious 4K I use the FS7 as A-cam and the FS5 is fine as B-cam in UHD as well. I rate the FS5 at 1200-1600iso for Log and use 800 or 1000 iso in cinemas. Upping the gain a bit is OK but if it gets real dark I use the A7s.
Using the FS5 the way I do you will never see the "horrible ripping" you can see blowing pixels up when looking at shaky cam footage shot underexposed with horizontal high contrast lines.
So I for one am just out there using this innovative cam for what it excels at. And I can't think of another camera that has all the great features in such a small and ergonomically great package.
I must say that if you can't get great images from any of the current available cams it is not the cameras fault. I don't just mean Sony cams, even iPhones can make great images, and I have used iPhone video in commercials intercut with FS7 footage and the client never noticed. You need to understand your camera, light well and you need to tell a great story. And you need to buy the right gear for what you are doing.
What do I mean by that. Well I use it as a replacement for my C100. And compared to the C100 it is far superior in HD, 422 10bit. I never had any problem emulating the "Canon Colors" with any Sony cam, just a bit of CC. And it actually has 4K so...
Is it a baby FS7, NO. And it was never meant to be a 4K Cine cam. The 4K is just a bonus. If I need Cine quality 4K I use my FS7. But in all my tests and I have had the FS5 since early December the images amaze me. I never spotted the ripping problem until I read about it by pixel peepers. And yes then it took me quite a few tries to replicate it. But the only way I can replicate it is very specific and not my way of shooting anyway, so it is almost a non issue in my mind. However I have contacted Sony and got a response from ( I won't name names here) some senior engineers and they are now looking into what can be done to improve this possible NR problem. And I am sure they will have a statement about it in a while and improvements in FW soon, just like they have on many other Sony Cams.
In the mean time I am having a great time using this very compact cam for winter outdoor shooting here in NH, mostly HD but some UHD and I love the Slomo. I can say I actually prefer the cache recording to the FS7 continuous. I am so used to the FS700 way and it uses much less media, you only record what you want, you don't burn through cards like crazy waiting for something to happen. And the media is a lot cheaper than the FS7 media.
I am sure the dust will settle here soon and shooters will just appreciate this great cam for what it is. Another tool in the quiver.
For low light I use the A7s, I only have V1 but it is great at that. For serious 4K I use the FS7 as A-cam and the FS5 is fine as B-cam in UHD as well. I rate the FS5 at 1200-1600iso for Log and use 800 or 1000 iso in cinemas. Upping the gain a bit is OK but if it gets real dark I use the A7s.
Using the FS5 the way I do you will never see the "horrible ripping" you can see blowing pixels up when looking at shaky cam footage shot underexposed with horizontal high contrast lines.
So I for one am just out there using this innovative cam for what it excels at. And I can't think of another camera that has all the great features in such a small and ergonomically great package.
I must say that if you can't get great images from any of the current available cams it is not the cameras fault. I don't just mean Sony cams, even iPhones can make great images, and I have used iPhone video in commercials intercut with FS7 footage and the client never noticed. You need to understand your camera, light well and you need to tell a great story. And you need to buy the right gear for what you are doing.
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Thanks Olof,
Thats great to hear something positive about the FS5 and also great that Sony are looking at the NR.
Ive yet to receive mine but I have had a quick play with a friends but no time for tests.
I too use the C100 and bought the FS5 to replace it. I love the C100 colours - its skin tones in C-Log is beautiful. And it's 24mbps AVCHD 420 is truly remarkable. I love the NR feature and always set it to 2. For broadcast jobs i use the Ninja to PrRes HQ. The main reason for replacing my C100 for the FS5 are because of the ergonomics and the HD 422 10bit. So its reinforcing to hear yr comments
Thats great to hear something positive about the FS5 and also great that Sony are looking at the NR.
Ive yet to receive mine but I have had a quick play with a friends but no time for tests.
I too use the C100 and bought the FS5 to replace it. I love the C100 colours - its skin tones in C-Log is beautiful. And it's 24mbps AVCHD 420 is truly remarkable. I love the NR feature and always set it to 2. For broadcast jobs i use the Ninja to PrRes HQ. The main reason for replacing my C100 for the FS5 are because of the ergonomics and the HD 422 10bit. So its reinforcing to hear yr comments