My O7Q: first real world production encounter

blackdogdylan

Active member
hey gang-

just thought I would post a blurb here about my first shoot with the Odyssey, for those with a lot of questions or doubts still.
I received my O7Q on Monday. mid-week, I got a call to shoot a short film/fake commercial for the Conan show (I've done a handful of projects with them over the years.) they usually come up last minute-ish, are pretty crazy, and always hilarious. they're one of my favorite clients, hands down. they also trust me implicitly when it comes to gear, so I always get to suggest how we should do something. I own a pretty kitted-out FS700 and they like the look of it, so I suggested we shoot with it (and a NEX 5N for a specialty shot.) and since I had my shiny new O7Q, I mentioned I'd bring it along.

now, the bad news first:
I can't tell you anything about the content of the shoot (yet) and I only RECORDED ONE SHOT on the O7Q, because their editorial is VERY hectic and they can't be bogged down with uncompressed workflows.

that caveat out of the way, this is what I can tell you:
the O7Q is an exceptional field monitor, right now. the analysis and focus tools are REALLY well implemented. the accuracy of the picture is spot on, and it's quite bright. my 1st AC looked at the picture and exclaimed, "that looks f**king amazing! blows the TV Logic away. I'd love to pull focus on that. I might just NEED to buy one of those." the gaffer, the producers, the lead editor, everyone couldn't look at the image without saying something about how "nice" it was.

I used it on a noga arm attached to the camera, on a WC LCD bracket, or mounted to a C-Stand. it ran the whole shoot day (conserving power on and off) on one of the CD 4-cell bricks (well, almost- it died before the martini shot- but since I was essentially using it as a "client monitor" with tools for me as well, it wasn't a big deal.) when on the cam, I just used velcro to stick the cells onto the FMU door. I also have a larger build-up with V-Mounts and run it off P-Taps, but wasn't using it on this one. the O7Q is VERY lightweight so it's really manageable to have it onboard as a large EVF or mounted on the dumb side of the camera for focus pulling. or just about anywhere you need it.

we only actually recorded one shot on it (one that was going to require a tricky green screen comp.) so far, I think editorial is in love with the pristine DPXs for that.

now for the "criticisms":

I really couldn't propose utilizing it as a recorder for our day because, as I mentioned, they require compressed workflows over there with extremely short editorial timelines. and raw was most definitely off the table. to propose a bleeding edge solution with inverse LUTS etc, wouldn't have been feasible. maybe once it matures a bit. but with such a feverish edit timeline (and a whole bevy of other components of their show to deal with) I opted instead to only record the composite shot on it- and for that, it worked perfectly.

HOWEVER, just for some perspective out there for potential O7Q users/owners, our entire day was recorded onboard (they have no problem with AVCHD and since we did a fair amount of highspeed, I was okay with it as well- ordinarily, I use an external recorder) and amounted to a little over 6GB. the ONE shot recorded in uncompressed DPX on the Odyssey? 14GB. more than double our entire day. the transfer speed off the SSDs is lightning fast though, so, that's great. but, good god these file sizes are big. compressed "popular codec" (you know who you are!) can't come soon enough. and DNxHD as well. that will make all my Avid peeps happy (the majority of my clients.)

there is some video tearing right now while viewing live or recorded images (which has been mentioned in other threads and I know CD is addressing- I'm not worried about it- it is NOT in the recording, so don't worry!)

also, some buggy behavior here and there. for example, when playing back 2K clips, sometimes the first time you press play, the debayer appears to be very low quality. stopping playback and restarting takes care of it.

some other users have discussed utilizing the O7Q as a "passthrough" to get a higher quality 1080p from the 4K (until compressed codecs arrive,) by recording the signal from the SDI or HDMI out.

afraid that's not the case, yet.

while the color (especially gradations) is WAY better on the 12 bit 4K raw stream (as compared to the 8 bit out of cam) the resolution is not quite there yet. something funny happening with the debayer causes a reduction in perceived resolution, in addition to color fringing and moire. I assume this is why CD is saying, "not yet, guys. it will get better." for viewing purposes, it's excellent. I just see no point in recording it when it's clearly a step back in quality from the HD. and same goes for 2K passthrough- only worse. because there, you ALSO have the reduction in resolution from the camera side. so I really WOULD NEVER RECORD THE OUTPUT OF THE 2K SIGNAL FROM THE O7Q. just doesn't look that good. you'll hear otherwise from some users. but I would never use that for broadcast. I would much sooner use the onboard AVCHD, warts and all. I think we should all be patient and wait for compressed codecs rather than try to hotwire the O7Q and get sh*tty results that makes clients say, "we used that thing and it didn't look good." I would only use the raw or uncompressed recordings for now.

to wrap it up, currently, the O7Q is an exceptionally good monitor with superb uncompressed recording capabilities- it is a Gemini 444, but better. I've been a big supporter of CD for years (and bought my nanoflash and O7Q from nanoflash.net- great service from those guys!) for real world, fast-paced broadcast TV workflows, it's not QUITE ready for primetime. if something comes up where I need an external recorder, I'll most likely rent a PIX240. but December is close. and if CD continues to listen to the community (which I know they do) and make it the powerful device I know it is, it's going to become THE de facto recording and monitoring device.

if they can add "popular compressed codec," DNxHD, soon, and perhaps some other flavors down the line, like XAVC and, fingers crossed, 4K raw, there will literally be no reason to ever rent or buy another recorder. this will be the one.

I'll pop a link up when this airs and then I can share more details and maybe some onset pics.
 
Great review!
The workflow is tedious for 2k.
I'm noticing the color fringing on the SDI Out signal, too. I was able to get a handle on the fringing by changing lenses. the sony SELP18200 is bad (in 4k?). Lots of CA at full zoom.
 
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Great review!
The workflow is tedious for 2k.
I'm noticing the color fringing on the SDI Out signal, too. I was able to get a handle on the fringing by changing lenses. the sony SELP18200 is bad (in 4k?). Lots of CA at full zoom.

thanks, Cuervo. I'm still seeing some moire (not necessarily CA) that gives way to rainbow color fringing on high frequency detail on the outputs (in raw modes only) with all my various lenses. seems like an artifact of the live debayer at this point, not the lenses (especially since I don't see it when the camera is in HD mode.) but as CD has said, they aren't "finished" with that (Mitch, Dan, care to weigh in?) I'm not worried. I suspect it's something they can improve upon and when they get it perfect, I'm sure they'll let us know. if I get a chance to do some comparison shots soon, I will.
 
I just used the 7Q for the first time in a production setting today, as well. In a similar boat, where I actually just used it as a monitor the entire day due to the specific production. I pretty much have to echo everything you've said about the monitoring capabilities. It's a sheer pleasure to use. I know we're all excited for the availability of "popular compressed codec." Great review, thanks for sharing your thoughts blackdogdylan.
 
Thanks for the in-depth review, warts & all! We are actively working on every issue you point out. As noted, the 4K-to-HD will get better, we promise.

Glad you're enjoying the Odyssey7Q even as just a monitor. It's a first time type product for the company and we're mighty proud. We recently put it side-vu-side with a $25K Sony OLED and then the next day a brand new Canon 4K $40K monitor, and our little 7Q held its own quite nicely. An almost perfect match.

Keep the reviews coming! We want to hear the good & bad.
 
Two things:

When are these (the NOT Q model) widely available, in your estimation? January?

Also, is there some sort of accessory that you can attach to mount it on a typical 5/8" spud light stand/c stand?
 
..something funny happening with the debayer causes a reduction in perceived resolution, in addition to color fringing and moire

I wonder if the stream is less 'touched' than the onboard record and the 'issues' could be dealt with in post, particularly percieved resolution via sharpening.

Doing this stuff off the camera seems the norm with higher end systems..

S
 
I had an initial issue with CA, however, after changing lenses, my Pix240 captured 10 bit images, coming from the O7Q in 4k monitor mode, looked really crisp and clean. I didn't see these resolution issues that Blackdogdylan mentioned, but, I didn't project my images on a large screen, just 24 inch monitor. And, for sure, the data stream was noticeably more robust when grading. I have been, routinely, capturing to the Pix 240's DNx220x; hardly ever using the FS700 onboard AVCHD, except for backup.

Blackdog: I'm wondering what mode you looked at the images on the SDI Out on your O7Q. Was it the 8-bit HD out of the FS700, or was it the 12-bit 4k?
 
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Two things:

When are these (the NOT Q model) widely available, in your estimation? January?

Also, is there some sort of accessory that you can attach to mount it on a typical 5/8" spud light stand/c stand?

The Odyssey7 (as opposed to the 7Q) is scheduled for release in January. "Widely Available" is something I can't really answer, as we have no way of knowing how many of the orders placed by our dealers are presold to clients. Sometimes they are stocking orders so they can always have a few on the shelves, and sometimes they NEVER want inventory on shelves as it costs them money. All I can say is that we're going to ship a bunch in january.

As for a stand mount, Zacuto, Manfrotto and others have mount adapters to place an Odyssey7 or 7Q on a light stand. The mounting hole on the Odyssey is a standard 1/4"x20 threaded socket and it is on the lower back of the unit (not on the bottom as that's where the connectors are located).
 
Hi Mitch,

Are you planning to implement the ability to delete files on the 7Q and view battery remaining time at any time in the future?
 
I'll have to check on the file deleting. I doubt we could go into the directory and delete any chosen file, but we might be able to delete the last take. It has to do with the way the material is organized on the drive.

We currently display a voltage meter. The problwm with a percentage is that we don't know what battery anyone is using at any given time and the Odyssey can accept 6.5v-32v. If you use an Anton Bauer battery it is rated as 14.4v but will top off at almost 18v. If you use a little camcorder battery it may be rated for 7.2v but top off around 8.5v. So how do we know what kind of percentage to use to check it?
 
I'll have to check on the file deleting. I doubt we could go into the directory and delete any chosen file, but we might be able to delete the last take. It has to do with the way the material is organized on the drive.
We currently display a voltage meter. The problwm with a percentage is that we don't know what battery anyone is using at any given time and the Odyssey can accept 6.5v-32v. If you use an Anton Bauer battery it is rated as 14.4v but will top off at almost 18v. If you use a little camcorder battery it may be rated for 7.2v but top off around 8.5v. So how do we know what kind of percentage to use to check it?


Delete last take would be what I would want 90% of the time, especially with high frame rates as I'd no longer have an end trigger mode.

Thanks again for your speedy, patient and informative communication on this forum by the way. One of the many reasons I'm happy to have ordered the 7Q!
 
Their speedy customer service is definitely a strong asset! I admit the last-take-deletion option would be nice with 240fps.

Mitch, I wanted to quickly confirm something with you that I couldn't see in the 7Q Manual. With the FS700 at 2K Raw (And presumably 4K when that's operational) it's shooting 2048x1080, which is obviously wider than 16:9. The monitor, I realize is converting all signals to 1920x1080 before it displays it on the 720p OLED. I'm assuming this means it's disregarding (cropping off) the extra 128 pixels left/right of the frame? Is there anyway to have, as an option, a way to display the entire 2048x1080 image with black mattes on the top and the bottom?
 
Their speedy customer service is definitely a strong asset! I admit the last-take-deletion option would be nice with 240fps.

Mitch, I wanted to quickly confirm something with you that I couldn't see in the 7Q Manual. With the FS700 at 2K Raw (And presumably 4K when that's operational) it's shooting 2048x1080, which is obviously wider than 16:9. The monitor, I realize is converting all signals to 1920x1080 before it displays it on the 720p OLED. I'm assuming this means it's disregarding (cropping off) the extra 128 pixels left/right of the frame? Is there anyway to have, as an option, a way to display the entire 2048x1080 image with black mattes on the top and the bottom?


I would think for 240fps it would actually be great to have pre-record so you could set ~2 sec of pre-record and then just cut whenever you want knowing you can roll again without missing anything. But yes last clip delete would probably be helpful, too.
 
I would think for 240fps it would actually be great to have pre-record so you could set ~2 sec of pre-record and then just cut whenever you want knowing you can roll again without missing anything. But yes last clip delete would probably be helpful, too.

Definitely! Any sort of re-record option would be helpful. I mean, I'm already so accustom to End-Trigger, that I wouldn't mind an End-Trigger 2K Raw option as well, though I realize that invalidates the Continuous part of the functionality. Perhaps a customized window of recording? And now I'm just making the coding extra complicated.
 
We currently display a voltage meter. The problwm with a percentage is that we don't know what battery anyone is using at any given time and the Odyssey can accept 6.5v-32v. If you use an Anton Bauer battery it is rated as 14.4v but will top off at almost 18v. If you use a little camcorder battery it may be rated for 7.2v but top off around 8.5v. So how do we know what kind of percentage to use to check it?

Some cameras (the HPX300, at least– I assume it's common on higher-end ENG cameras as well) let you set the battery parameters in terms of full, near-end, and end cutoff voltages, so it can display a regular percentage meter regardless of battery type. That'd be handy on the 7Q, since I imagine most owners will use one battery setup the majority of the time so that initial calibration wouldn't be a big deal. In the scheme of things, it's a minor convenience feature though.
 
Some cameras (the HPX300, at least– I assume it's common on higher-end ENG cameras as well) let you set the battery parameters in terms of full, near-end, and end cutoff voltages, so it can display a regular percentage meter regardless of battery type. That'd be handy on the 7Q, since I imagine most owners will use one battery setup the majority of the time so that initial calibration wouldn't be a big deal. In the scheme of things, it's a minor convenience feature though.
It is something we're looking at implementing.
 
It's not so much an issue of extra coding as it is a memory buffer. You're asking for this to become a Phantom.

Fair enough! Any thoughts on my previous question about the crop?

"Mitch, I wanted to quickly confirm something with you that I couldn't see in the 7Q Manual. With the FS700 at 2K Raw (And presumably 4K when that's operational) it's shooting 2048x1080, which is obviously wider than 16:9. The monitor, I realize is converting all signals to 1920x1080 before it displays it on the 720p OLED. I'm assuming this means it's disregarding (cropping off) the extra 128 pixels left/right of the frame? Is there anyway to have, as an option, a way to display the entire 2048x1080 image with black mattes on the top and the bottom?"
 
It's not so much an issue of extra coding as it is a memory buffer. You're asking for this to become a Phantom.

Just commented on the same thing in your Status update thread (amongst other stuff):

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?314805-Odyssey7-amp-Odyssey7Q-Status-Update/page38

- End trigger record for HFR : I know this has already been mentioned, however end trigger record for HFR action is pretty much the only way we shoot. Understood there's going to be an on-board memory limitation, as a suggestion how about setting up a looped record for a configurable amount of time, pressing stop on record would effectively be the end trigger?

Just to mirror other people's comments, thanks Mitch for the candid and continuous feedback, it really is appreciated, great to know where we are and where we're headed!
 
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