Vultch
Well-known member
Are you editing on FCP if so I believe QT 7 is on the apple studio discs you need to do a custom install using those discs( install QT 7 only)
Other wise you can buy it off the apple website and install
My NanoFlash footage looks HORRIBLE
- Thread starter TornFusion
- Start date
Are you editing on FCP if so I believe QT 7 is on the apple studio discs you need to do a custom install using those discs( install QT 7 only)
Other wise you can buy it off the apple website and install
dustylense
Veteran
or just use the free Mpegsteamclip.
Rick Burnett
Section Moderator
That's not my experience with my AF100. I really dislike the look of the default settings and find there is too much noise in the grays when I shoot with that. I spent A LONG time going through all the difference settings and observing the results and was actually amazed at how different an image you can get with different settings. For me, I noticed it was the detail setting at 0 that I really didn't like. I NEVER go above -4.
TornFusion
Member
That is why I am so stumped; I have seen footage of the camera using normal SD cards and it looks 5X as good as mine. I have seen footage of the camera using NanoFlash's and it looks 15X as good as mine. I took your advice and set the camera to a default setting, this is the picture I got.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/62413835@N04/5685438906/in/photostream/lightbox/
I'm starting to wonder if it is the HD SDI cable I am using. I got it with the NanoFlash in a bundle from package from indiegroup.com and am curious as to the quality of the cable.
Anyone...thoughts?
TornFusion
Member
I also took your advice from yesterday and tried one of the "clean" settings. This is what I got, straight from FCP.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/62413835@N04/5685449064/in/photostream/lightbox/
It seems that, regardless of the settings, the darker colors are ALWAYS packed with moving particles and noise.
I'm stumped.
Rick Burnett
Section Moderator
Hmmm, that still looks clean to me 
Cleaner than the others that you have posted.
Cleaner than the others that you have posted.TornFusion
Member
It is a bit cleaner, but the amount of noise happening in the shadows looks horrible; look at the dark areas on the belly of the Big Horn and the leaves to the right of the image...i've seen footage shot with the internal codec that doesn't have anywhere near this much noise.
Rick Burnett
Section Moderator
did you try looking at the footage off the cam too? Might be a good comparison to make.
TornFusion
Member
I did, and the weird thing is that it looks fine. I even ran an HDMI from my NanoFlash to the TV to see what it looked like, and it looked fine. However, after i recorded, the noise appeared on the NanoFlash footage and was able to be seen on the computer and TV through playback.
Rick Burnett
Section Moderator
That is really strange. I wouldn't think it's a cable problem if it looks fine before playback going through the Nanoflash. I'm out of ideas myself.
Shooter
Veteran
So Rick...you now seem to be saying that the default settings could be the cause of the OPs issue and maybe you are even observing what he does when he uses them.
The OP has reported that his footage is flawless played out to a different monitor.
Thats what I mean about chasing ghosts. (This issue will not be fixed by messing with camera settings otherwise we would all be seeing his issue and needing the same fix) We would all be screaming about a faulty camera in that case I would have thought!
Trouble shooting must be a controlled process from a default base.
Contrary to your tests...I went through all the default settings and had no issues similar to yours. Maybe you have a monitor issue as well.
TornFusion
Member
It is only noisy once the footage has been recorded. When I am sending a direct HDMI feed from the NanoFlash to my TV pre-recording, it looks great. Once it has been recorded and I play it back through the nanoflash to the TV or onto the computer, it looks really bad.
Rick Burnett
Section Moderator
From the very beginning of using the AF100 I had problems with the default settings of the camera. Our material is typically released through the web so for me, the performance of the video on the computer is absolutely important. I've spent many many hours going through AF100 footage on two different systems and three different monitors and compared that footage with footage from a 7D shooting the exact same situations. In addition, I did also watch footage played back on a television for comparison.
Given I did not use a nanoflash, I too could be seeing the same thing on my screens if I had, I just never felt like I needed one after reviewing the internal footage.
It's my observation that using the sharpening algorithms in the AF100 really amplify the noise. I tuned the detail settings until I got a noise floor that matched my 7D which I was happy with, and that ended up being around -4. I had originally been shooting at -7 but the image was so clean that posterization became a problem due to the 8-bit storage format. Reducing down to -4 allowed some noise back in and caused the places that would be banded to be dithered.
I agree that a controlled environment is essential for testing, but just because Panasonic deemed those settings as default doesn't mean they are noise free or the best. And from my perspective, they are not. I've reviewed the 'Clean' setting by Ablecine and see that it is almost identical to my settings. Given those settings were tested to be the cleanest, I would run with those to try and eliminate as much noise from the image as possible and see where things stand. As I've reviewed many other people's settings, this takes the guesswork out of trying to find the cleanest settings.
I definitely think that the majority of people complaining about noise in the footage has been Mac users (although there was a few PC users). And my experiments in 10.5 with QuickTime, Final Cut and Premiere, along with Clipwrap, VLC, and the AVCCAM viewer showed different results in almost ALL of those scenarios. Very frustrating. And that's not AF100 specific, as the 7D footage also had some differences as well, just not as many. I believe the makers of clipwrap have narrowed down one problem and that is what to use for the default colorspace for the AF100 footage as it is not defined in the footage and they weren't sure what to use, they needed to contact Panasonic they told me.
That said, Apples to Apples, when I look at footage off the 7D and AF100 with default settings on the same computer screen, the AF100 footage was MUCH noisier. Just because a calibrated monitor doesn't show it doesn't mean it is not there, or, the issue of how it limits how far you can push that footage in post. After coming up with my settings, the footage is cleaner than the 7D I feel because the noise is not chroma noise like the 7D produces, it looks more like grain, and it is VERY VERY minor. And of course in my case, it needs to look good on the computer as well, and it does now.
Where I have no experience is with the nanoflash. I know what H.264 does to noise and detail, it slightly smooths it out. As others have pointed out on the 7D the skin can become plastic looking. This happens also in the AF100 but to a much much lesser degree. In footage from the nanoflash I've downloaded, this is one of the biggest differences I have seen, and I could see why more noise would be present.
However, what doesn't make sense is that the signal out of the nanoflash before recording looks clean, and then after recording, even on the tv, it is noisy. This would make me suspect of the nanoflash because you're able to see the cleaner material out of the camera so you know that is what the nanoflash is getting.
Given I did not use a nanoflash, I too could be seeing the same thing on my screens if I had, I just never felt like I needed one after reviewing the internal footage.
It's my observation that using the sharpening algorithms in the AF100 really amplify the noise. I tuned the detail settings until I got a noise floor that matched my 7D which I was happy with, and that ended up being around -4. I had originally been shooting at -7 but the image was so clean that posterization became a problem due to the 8-bit storage format. Reducing down to -4 allowed some noise back in and caused the places that would be banded to be dithered.
I agree that a controlled environment is essential for testing, but just because Panasonic deemed those settings as default doesn't mean they are noise free or the best. And from my perspective, they are not. I've reviewed the 'Clean' setting by Ablecine and see that it is almost identical to my settings. Given those settings were tested to be the cleanest, I would run with those to try and eliminate as much noise from the image as possible and see where things stand. As I've reviewed many other people's settings, this takes the guesswork out of trying to find the cleanest settings.
I definitely think that the majority of people complaining about noise in the footage has been Mac users (although there was a few PC users). And my experiments in 10.5 with QuickTime, Final Cut and Premiere, along with Clipwrap, VLC, and the AVCCAM viewer showed different results in almost ALL of those scenarios. Very frustrating. And that's not AF100 specific, as the 7D footage also had some differences as well, just not as many. I believe the makers of clipwrap have narrowed down one problem and that is what to use for the default colorspace for the AF100 footage as it is not defined in the footage and they weren't sure what to use, they needed to contact Panasonic they told me.
That said, Apples to Apples, when I look at footage off the 7D and AF100 with default settings on the same computer screen, the AF100 footage was MUCH noisier. Just because a calibrated monitor doesn't show it doesn't mean it is not there, or, the issue of how it limits how far you can push that footage in post. After coming up with my settings, the footage is cleaner than the 7D I feel because the noise is not chroma noise like the 7D produces, it looks more like grain, and it is VERY VERY minor. And of course in my case, it needs to look good on the computer as well, and it does now.
Where I have no experience is with the nanoflash. I know what H.264 does to noise and detail, it slightly smooths it out. As others have pointed out on the 7D the skin can become plastic looking. This happens also in the AF100 but to a much much lesser degree. In footage from the nanoflash I've downloaded, this is one of the biggest differences I have seen, and I could see why more noise would be present.
However, what doesn't make sense is that the signal out of the nanoflash before recording looks clean, and then after recording, even on the tv, it is noisy. This would make me suspect of the nanoflash because you're able to see the cleaner material out of the camera so you know that is what the nanoflash is getting.
TornFusion
Member
Exactly.
Rick Burnett
Section Moderator
Does the nanoflash have any sort of factory reset, or newer firmware?
TornFusion
Member
Not that I know of.
Dan Keaton
Well-known member
Dear TornFusion,
I will be happy to assist.
HD-SDI is not like traditional analog video cables.
If the signal gets through, then the signal is good, 100% accurate.
If the signal has a problem and can't get through 100% accurately, then you will not get an image or a recording at all.
I can state that the cable is not the problem, if that helps.
You may call me:
All of my numbers are on the bottom on this link:
http://www.convergent-design.com/Support/SupportContacts/tabid/1767/Default.aspx
I will be happy to assist.
HD-SDI is not like traditional analog video cables.
If the signal gets through, then the signal is good, 100% accurate.
If the signal has a problem and can't get through 100% accurately, then you will not get an image or a recording at all.
I can state that the cable is not the problem, if that helps.
You may call me:
All of my numbers are on the bottom on this link:
http://www.convergent-design.com/Support/SupportContacts/tabid/1767/Default.aspx
Dan Keaton
Well-known member
Dear Friends,
Our latest firmware is 1.6.248 (for the nanoFlash).
This is found in the System|About menu item.
Our latest firmware is 1.6.248 (for the nanoFlash).
This is found in the System|About menu item.
TornFusion
Member
Thanks for this. That's all I needed to hear in order to rule that out as the problem.
Andy Mangrum
New member
Hello Everyone,
To add to what Dan had mentioned, a easy test you can do to determine if it is the AF100, or the nanoFlash is simply shoot the same type of shot with another camera, if everything looks just fine, then it would be a setting on the Af100,
Also keep in mind that since the nanoFlash is an external recorder we can not adjust many settings such as aperture, and contrast, but Simply record whatever is feed to us via the SDI out of the camera.
Hope that Helps
To add to what Dan had mentioned, a easy test you can do to determine if it is the AF100, or the nanoFlash is simply shoot the same type of shot with another camera, if everything looks just fine, then it would be a setting on the Af100,
Also keep in mind that since the nanoFlash is an external recorder we can not adjust many settings such as aperture, and contrast, but Simply record whatever is feed to us via the SDI out of the camera.
Hope that Helps