My First Commercial Shoot (Wisdom Needed)

S

shoook

Active member
Hey guys all I've ever shot before are short films but a local client approached me and asked me to shoot their commercial. The client is a large church in the area and they've already been running various ads for a year or two now but all of them have that distinct "local commercial" feel.

If you guys could give me whatever basic advice you feel is essential when going into a commercial shoot I will be eternally grateful. I'll have an audio guy, a lighting guy, and a few camera/dolly operators who the church already uses but I haven't met yet.
 
be creative. take advantage of whatever tools you can. you mentioned dolly, access to jib? post wise: color correct, have really sharp graphics and animations. and put that sound and lighting guys to work.

use your short film techniques to make this different than the average "local church" commercial.

story board and come up with multiple ideas. and be very very anal.
 
Use DOF and reduce contrast to keep it looking more filmy. Use an adapter or at least shoot with the iris wide open. Shoot it like your movies, but consider 30p. For exteriors, use grad filters to control contrast and color. Give some thought to the best time of day to be shooting your exteriors.

The things that seem the worst in local commercials to me:
poor lighting choices
lens choices based on camera placement, which is usually based on wherever the cam op put the camera down
post that doesn't fine-tune color, exposure, audio, etc.

but obviously, there are many many more.
 
Ok is it a cardinal sin to shoot in 24p for a tv commercial?

Also, most of the previous commercials I've watched for this client have pretty poor audio. They told me they don't do any dubbing and it is all captured from a lav and boom mic on set. Should I dub the audio or is it a better idea to have a technician sweeten the audio in post?
 
If they are paying you...you need to be technically proficient no matter what they have done in the past. As a "paid pro" you need to exceed their expectations and improve on what was done in the past.

Carefuly analyse a good commercial and work out how it was achieved at all levels.

You ask about dubbing. Dubbing what? What is your understanding of dubbing?

If it is a person talking to camera...record it properly and you wont need to dubb it. Thats the sound guys job to get it right.

Sounds like a multi camera shoot. That needs serious planning and organising.

Do you have a script?
 
Insert Wisdom------> Well.... This isn't gonna be pretty..... Actulley I didn't expect much more from a group of Junior wanna be film makers. No disrespect... We all should strive to be great filmakers.... But lets call an Ace an Ace.

Got your attention now!

First off you and everybody who responded don't have the knowlege/background to produce a successful commercial.

When your a newbie all you can think of is technicall stuff. A good advertising person could make a more effective commercial than you with a Black screen.

Not saying you shouldn't be technical..... I'm saying use creativity and technology to enhance the message your tryin to convey. Why jib or boom when it's not nessesary?


Lesson #1

- Know what your selling. It's a commercial... your selling something.
- What's the message?
- Who is telling the message?
- Who is the target audience?
- Are you selling the building....or what goes on in the building?
- Is it about the faith..... or the people that share the faith?

At the end of the commercial did your target market get the message?

See what I'm saying guys..... Advertising is an art of it's own. Most all successful commercials are well thought out and even tested with focus groups. Just cause you have a camera it doesn't mean you should be making films or commercials.


frisco
 
frisco is cool.

see what the client wants, then come up with the best way of presenting whatever hes selling.

1-what the client has in his mind takes priority.
2-what you think is the best way of showing the product is a suggestion.
3-planing and organizing everything is a good discipline.

4-sometimes simple stuff stand out more, and are more elegant when done properly
 
Frisco is a tosspot : I quote him "First off you and everybody who responded don't have the knowlege/background to produce a successful commercial."

End quote.

I have been making successful TVCs for over thirty five years for clients (who keep coming back) shooting brand commercials for both cinema and TV. Lost count years ago of how many I have made and shot. Picked up a few advertisng awards along the way.

I shoot/direct/produce (and even edit) for local and international clients (agencies and prod companies) on both film and digital video. I have a earned reputation as both a aerial cameraman as well as a specialist food/table top director/D.P

I have owned a motion picture processing laboratory as well as a Film Company and a Post Production Facility. I currently run and operate the latter two.

Throw in a few feature films and you have a glimpse of my "background".

Advertising has been my passion and career since I was 18 years old (even worked in an agency) and I can assure you that there is f**ck all you could tell me about creating an effective TV ad.

BTW Ammrrhammy - never give the client what he wants in advertising. Give him what he needs. Thats what they pay you for. Point 3 & 4 , I agree with.
 
Plan ahead with particular shots in mind - a script, storyboard, etc. Pay attention to every detail when shooting . . . unsightly objects in the background, lighting, etc., some stuff you just can't fix in post.
 
I quote him "Carefuly analyse a good commercial and work out how it was achieved at all levels."

Your kidding ...Right? Copy someone elses work at all levels..... nice, very creative.

Another quote: "Advertising has been my passion and career since I was 18 years old (even worked in an agency) and I can assure you that there is f**ck all you could tell me about creating an effective TV ad."

I'll leave that alone...... You may be right.....Your statement speaks for itself......

You of all people here should know what I'm talking about if you do have the claimed experience.

frisco
 
Back to Shook's question, if shooting for broadcast then use DVCPro50 at 480i. I wouldn't shoot 24p unless this is for a DVD promotional item or web delivery. I seriously doubt this commercial will be used on an HD broadcast so just use SD.

Three things that have helped me on location are:

1) Make sure you use a clapper/slate that is in the frame BEFORE you turn the camera on so that view becomes the icon for your takes. Make sure your actors don't jump into their dialogue when the see the clapper fall. Beg them to count to three after calling"action." Then don't stop recording until a couple of seconds have passed after the action stops.

2) Having a professional make-up artist (that does TV/Film not stage) that can keep the look of your actors consistent shot to shot. That means hair combed, make-up not shiny, clothing smoothed, etc...

3) If you are using a teleprompter, absolutely have someone running it that has practiced a little beforehand. Your eyes as director have to be on the talent and action (via the monitor). Only you will see the misplaced glance or someone staring into the camera that looks inappropriate. That is something that just won't get fixed except with a cut and sometimes that's just not possible. I wouldn't worry as much about multiple cameras unless you are shooting something that is hard to duplicate.

Without seeing a storyboard it's hard to know what kind of shots you are planning or need. My only recommendation would be to get multiple takes from several angles. If you have been shooting short films, this would be much like the master/coverage technique you are probably familiar with. This will give you lots of options when editing later on. Even though the finished product will only be 30 or 60 seconds, you'll be amazed at how long it takes to get the right finished look. When editing, you'll be looking at almost every frame to cut at just the right moment so no time is wasted. Making a commercial is like writing Haiku; everything counts; whereas a short film is more like a writing a short story. Tightly crafted, but an extra frame won't make or break the look. Want to ruin a commercial? Have it run 00:00:30:14 when you deliver...

Speaking of delivery, don't forget to add several hundred dollars for BetaSP or other delivery as required by the local station. They probably won't take your finished .mov or .avi. You'll also need proper color, sound, slate, and setup for final delivery, i.e. "bars and tone." Search for posts about this or PM me if you can't figure it out (sample commercial on a shoestring budget http://newmediadevelopmentcorporation.com/Images/Broadcast_spot_30.swf ).

Good luck and have fun with it!
 
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"Shooter is a Wanker: I quote him "Carefuly analyse a good commercial and work out how it was achieved at all levels."

Your kidding ...Right? Copy someone elses work at all levels..... nice, very creative."


Big difference between analysing (studying) and copying. Its called learning.

The OP obviously has no idea how to get decent audio results for example so he needs to work out how it was done or how to do it properly. That aint a creative process. Thats a technical matter.

I am in no position to judge his creative abilities but I can surmise his technical production abilities are minimal if he is asking the questions that he has.

Everyone starts somewhere.


BTW - frisco. My objection to your post was the "dis" you served on others when you had no idea what their knowledge or background was.

"First off you and everybody who responded don't have the knowlege/background to produce a successful commercial."

Post up a link to your reel sometime frisco. Keen to see your work.
 
Shooter said:
I have been making successful TVCs for over thirty five years for clients (who keep coming back) shooting brand commercials for both cinema and TV. Lost count years ago of how many I have made and shot. Picked up a few advertisng awards along the way.

I shoot/direct/produce (and even edit) for local and international clients (agencies and prod companies) on both film and digital video. I have a earned reputation as both a aerial cameraman as well as a specialist food/table top director/D.P

I have owned a motion picture processing laboratory as well as a Film Company and a Post Production Facility. I currently run and operate the latter two.

Throw in a few feature films and you have a glimpse of my "background".

Advertising has been my passion and career since I was 18 years old (even worked in an agency) and I can assure you that there is f**ck all you could tell me about creating an effective TV ad.

BTW Ammrrhammy - never give the client what he wants in advertising. Give him what he needs. Thats what they pay you for. Point 3 & 4 , I agree with.
Click to expand...

What an impressive resume.........................

When shoook was asking for advice, I think "Shooter" pretty much hit the nail on the head...............
 
Totally agree on shooters point regarding want vs need. Be careful though with this one. If you dont address the clients want you may upset them, but the good thing is many clients dont really know exactly and need you to fulfill their need.

First thing Id do is sit down with the client and understand the message they need to get out, what is they are selling? I know its a church, but remember advertising is always selling something.

Id scrap thoughts of what and how. Create the concept and your script. And once youve successfully pitched those and got approval, then consider the shooting style that is going to benefit "YOUR MESSAGE".

Its at this point where you probably post on the forum and could ask a Direct question like - Im going for XYZ, what do you think is the best way to achieve it?

Good luck.

EDIT: wanted to add, remember what you are trying to achieve is an emotional response from viewers. You want them to think, Yes, Id like to feel good to, or something similar.
 
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I respectfully disagree with Shooter and Noel Evens. If your getting paid to shoot what the "advertising agency" wants then you give them what they want. They have teams of people who have backgrounds on marketing, education in advertising, they've done the research with focus groups. They know what sells and what doesn't.

However, if your getting paid to create the concept/message and act out as "advertising agency" then I agree with want vs need.
 
Client wants:

TVC to cost nothing (or less than it costs to make properly)
To use themselves, the g/f or an employee in the TVC as the "actor"
To be shot after hours in their location (with a time limit of 2 hours)
To provide one sample of the product (ie. marred and not camera ready or suitable for shooting)
Huge graphics and logos (flashing ones are best)
To be finished by tomorrow
To be re edited because the wife or girl friend doesnt like the color of the graphics
To be re edited to make the graphics bigger and flash more...
Three months credit
.....
 
Okay, here is some guidance I can provide, that I hope you find helpful.

30 and 60 second spots have a known format.
Typically a 30 second spot is divided into two (sometimes three) parts.

Depending on where you're sending the spot, it will have 2 to 4 seconds of pre-roll (slate) with beeps and information about the spot. "Bars and Tone" may be needed before the spot and its slate if you're laying it off to tape so that the station can adjust their gear properly (if they do).

Usual combination is:

25 second "creative" / 5 second "end tag"
15 second "creative" / 10 second "call to action" / 5 second "end tag"

The 5 second end-tag usually contains voice over, a phone number, legal disclaimers, price offers.

Over 90 percent of spots go through ADR (Automatic Dialogue Replacement) for any speaking talent, and include a VO Artist for non-speaking creatives.

So really you'll need to story-board, or reference what that mere 25 to 15 seconds will contain. Try to pre-record yourself reading it into time as your talent would. If they don't say it fast enough, there is no fixing it into time without suffering.

Plan Plan Plan.

Commercial shoots are the "most" controlled environments, as someone else mentioned - _every_ frame counts.

Here are what typical "Local" spots suffer from.

- Lack of Idea/Marketing Directive/Scripting/Story boarding/Direction.

Used Cat Bob speaks into the Camera, his cars look like garb with all those neon price-tags in them, his offers scare small children and pets.

- Lack of quality sound and VO/Commercial talent.
The Used Car Bob, though he owns the dealership, cannot act, looks ghastly, screams into his microphone.

- Lack of Quality Graphics for Tags/Titles/Disclaimers

Do use Motion, After Effects or other to create your graphics, hire a graphics guy.
Don't stick a blue/red 5 second tag with yellow phone numbers on the bottom.
Avoid full on solid colors like RED/GREEN/BLUE/CYAN/MANGENTA/YELLOW for the end tag.
Don't abuse the lower 3'd for the duration of the spot.
Use Legible fonts. But not "HUGE" fonts.

- Lack of knowledge of title safe, action safe.

Heads, phone numbers, are cut-off, by SD equipment during playback.

- Lack of ADR our Sound Stage grade sound, or half-way ADR jobs.

Used Car Bob, does indeed sound like he is present on the premises of his dealership, he goes from -20db noise to +4 clipped exited shouting.

Used Car Bob lips are out of sync, in some shots.

- Lack of good sound mixing

Bob sounds completely different when he says what the phone number to his dealership is, or the location of his dealership when the end tag graphic floats up
In 30 seconds different sound sources from the same talent need to be over-tweaked, they need to sound consistent, not bob in parking lot, bob in quiet office.

- Lack of knowlege on how to deliver it to the station:

Request every format the station will accept commercials in (BetacamSP/DigitBeta/MPEG-2 Transport/DG) , ask them what they'll do with tape you send them, they may capture it into something digital for play-out, ask what they capture into, send them that if you can.

Most commercials look local because the station also tweaks them to be local they don't come in in-time, compared to their "National" digital play-outs, they are sourced from something close to SVHS/Betacam with a proc-amp in front.

The station plays the spot HOT or under level or with 7.5IRE setup or with double setup etc, Clipped or Hot audio. (in HD this is not that big of a problem as with SD, so know your video-video if delivering SD).

Delivering to local cable can be perilous, as they may know less than you about the material they are playing, it turns out looking like complete garb, even though your play-out looked okay.

- Lack of Quality Music or FX/Foley tracks.

Do get the sounds you need, unless you want your spot to sound like an ENG story from your local news reporter out in the field.

Do not use know tracks like Vivaldi 4 seasons, is cheesy.. really it is.

- Lack of Style/ Set Decoration

Bobs Used Cars, may look OK, but it sure looks like crap in a wide-shot.
A few well taken stills with a DSLR moving about could have been better than a real dolly shot which includes the melting grey snow, garbage containers, sodium lights, neon price-tags, disrepair in the building, dirty windows, papers on the floor, yellowing copy machine.

======

If you want to separate yourself from the "Local" look. Consider that everything in a spot is done into time, everything.

So if you only have 30 seconds, time the writing, use a sound recorder, stop watch, read it back with its beat, meter. See if it fits. Edit, re-edit on paper. (Sort of like shooting a cartoon.)

Create pre-visualizations,end tag graphics. Play it with your temp track in your video editing software. (Don't show this to your client unless they know "what" they are looking at..)

Have complete intent in shooting what you desired, if a tough talent (Owner/Manager of the Business) gets in the way of getting the shot, cannot perform. Figure out how to trick them into doing it, don't hurt their ego.

Try to lock-in what you're going to be shooting, such that nobody gets "Ideas" the day of the shoot, including the guy paying you.

Shoot in the most controlled sets possible. If you need to close the place down, do it, do it at night. As a short film maker, you've most likely shot on location, where you cannot control passer-by, cars, police/ambulance sirens, helicopters, dogs barking, and lighting conditions. Get the _most_ controlled environment you can, sound stages are good.

Try to go to a professional studio to record the VO/ADR or buy a sound booth (you may even be able to film there), don't do it right there and then, on location, with a boom.

Get commercial acting releases from talent (which may be a bit different from normal acting releases for a dramatic performance.) If the talent in your spot, buys a lemon car from Used Car Bob (or get fired from the place), they may end up on the local news representing themselves, putting your spot in peril, prohibit them from filming Used Car Jim's spots as well/for a duration of time - predicted runtime of the spot.

As Far as filming in 24p vs. 30p vs. 60i etc..

IT DOES NOT MATTER, there will be tools to add 2:3 pulldown to your final material if shot in 24p or convert it into that, your final material will need to be in the format the station will play.

If it's NTSC SD, it will need to be interlaced at 29.97, letterbox added if shot in 16:9, 2:3 pulldown added if shot at 24p (23.978), 16 bit/48khz sound, in stereo.

Your graphics can travel outside of the 16:9, you can use the letterbox for other stuff,
your end-tag can be full screen 4:3.

Try to do as much in pre-production as possible.

Sweeting up the sound, or fixing something in the post is "myth" unless your post workflow already includes those steps from pre-production.




shoook said:
Hey guys all I've ever shot before are short films but a local client approached me and asked me to shoot their commercial. The client is a large church in the area and they've already been running various ads for a year or two now but all of them have that distinct "local commercial" feel.

If you guys could give me whatever basic advice you feel is essential when going into a commercial shoot I will be eternally grateful. I'll have an audio guy, a lighting guy, and a few camera/dolly operators who the church already uses but I haven't met yet.
Click to expand...
 
Yes ...an advertising agency as a client is a different issue than the direct client issue.

I suspect the OP is dealing in the latter scenario.

Never entirely believe "They know what sells and what doesn't."... but let them think you believe that they do. (They can then take the blame when it goes tits up)
 
Angelcyk said:
I respectfully disagree with Shooter and Noel Evens. If your getting paid to shoot what the "advertising agency" wants then you give them what they want. They have teams of people who have backgrounds on marketing, education in advertising, they've done the research with focus groups. They know what sells and what doesn't.
Click to expand...

Understood, and agree. But as per shooter the OP is talking about a direct to client.
 
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