my experience making my first low-budget feature
- Thread starter roei z
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j1clark@ucsd.edu
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There are quite a number of people writing... In this modern world, one is not limited to one's 'local' acquaintances. On this site there are several writers, who write short scripts that others on this site make into movies. The operative word here is 'short'... few people do have the skill at this level to write a feature that is 'worth watching', and by the same token, few filmmakers have the stuff to pull off a feature film either.
This may be an outrageous statement... but at this level, that is 'beginner'... it may not be as important to have a 'quality' script, but just get something done... who knows in the process of making the short film, could benefit the story/script in terms of improvement... which leads me to... one of the most glaring 'defects' that I have seen in the scripts that I have read on various sites from those contributors, is they don't really 'read into film' well... So the learning process of write short, make short, see what works... benefits both the writer and the filmmaker.
Ted Spencer
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Looks like you're right - the threads are all there, but the links to the scripts themselves appear to be broken. Perhaps a moderator can tell us if there's any way to access them at this point. Sorry for the misdirection.
Ted Spencer
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Haven't spent much time there, but it is a reputable site. I'd say go get all you can from it : )
Rolf Silber
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Okay, I retreat a step or two.... ;-)
The short(er) form clearly allows much more freedom and gives more space to learn. And I do not expect a writer to be born experienced - writing you learn through writing and through the following process of how your writing develops into a film. point taken.
What I meant was that writers who make a living from writing only will be a few - for a lot of different reason.
The short(er) form clearly allows much more freedom and gives more space to learn. And I do not expect a writer to be born experienced - writing you learn through writing and through the following process of how your writing develops into a film. point taken.
What I meant was that writers who make a living from writing only will be a few - for a lot of different reason.
Ted Spencer
Veteran
Exactly.
The internet has revolutionized the the access-to-a-screenwriter's-work paradigm (not to mention all other types of writers): in seconds, a script for a film can be transmitted as an attachment to an email. Combine that marvelous innovation with screenwriter-oriented sites like zoetrope, triggerstreet, inktip, donedeal, and this one...among many others...and you've practically got a kid-in-a-candy-store situation.
Right now on zoetrope there are 12 short scripts available to read (one of which is mine - and thanks to Roei for the new review!) and 33 features. New ones are added almost every day. They stay on the list for a month before they're rotated out. Are all the scripts good? Of course not. Some are terrible (more so in the features section, where a subset of fame-deluded types tend to gravitate). Are all the writers willing to have you produce one of their scripts? Of course not. But are there good scripts to be found whose writers would be more than happy to have you make theirs into a film, quite possibly with little or no additional effort on their part? You bet there are...
The days of 'asking around town' about writers are all but over (although it certainly still can work in some towns!). A writer doesn't have to be on set after all, and many directors don't want them there even if they're willing and able to do so. So a writer/collaborator can literally be anywhere *in the entire world*.
IMO this is a near-perfect solution for Roei, an aspiring filmmaker who is unequivocal about being highly challenged by scriptwriting. I'll be very much looking forward to hearing about his efforts to find someone to collaborate with him (or even provide him with a good, ready-made script).
I see no reason whatsoever to be anything but encouraging to him about this.
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Ted Spencer
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It is damn near impossible to make a living as a screenwriter, (almost) no matter how good you are. So there are *lots* of very capable ones looking to get their scripts produced. Even ones that are writers of major award-winning films struggle surprisingly often. I know one personally - wrote an Oscar winning film in the 80s and has never gotten a theatrical feature produced since. He still makes a living at it, but as a writer co/writer of fairly low-profile made-for-TV movies. Take a look sometime at the imdb pages of the writers of some of your favorite films. Some of them will have *only that one film* as a significant credit, and years of 'nothingness' surrounding them (years almost certainly filled with multiple failed efforts to get another script produced). It's a *really, really* tough game, and thus a classic 'buyer's market' if there ever was one.
In other words, there is a massive oversupply of writers competing for a relatively minuscule number of 'greenlit' productions, *at all levels*.
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Ted Spencer
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Beethoven, Mozart, Shakespeare, Michaelangelo, Aristotle...these guys are untouchable, historic geniuses whose works will (arguably) never be equalled, so perhaps we should factor them out of a discussion of our present creative environment where collaborations are concerned.
But in the modern era, let's say early 20th century to the present:
Regarding music, many of the greatest and/or most successful works were in fact created by collaborators, usually in pairs (but sometimes more), like:
Gilbert & Sullivan
Rogers & Hammerstein
Rogers & Hart
Lerner & Lowe
George & Ira Gershwin
Bernstein & Sondheim
Andrew Webber & Tim Rice
Lennon/McCartney
Jagger/Richards
Tyler/Perry (Aerosmith)
Becker/Fagen (Steely Dan)
And countless others...
Likewise, many if not most hollywood scripts these days are collaborations, sometimes of several writers. Even what we think of as pretty hardcore big-league writer/director types do it pretty often, like:
Christopher Nolan, who collaborated with/on:
David Goyer/Batman Begins
Jonathan Nolan/Memento, The Prestige
David Goyer & Jonathan Nolan/The Dark Knight, The Dark Knight Rises
George Lucas, who collaborated with/on:
Leigh Brackett, Lawrence Kasdan/The Empire Strikes Back
Lawrence Kasdan/Return Of The Jedi
Jonathan Hales/Attack Of The Clones
James Cameron, who collaborated with/on:
Walter Hill, David Giler/Aliens
Claude Zidi, Simon Michael, Didier Kaminka/True Lies
Jay Cocks/Strange Days
And everything ever done by the Coen or Wachowski brothers.
Even Alfred Hitchcock, almost inarguably one of the greatest storytellers in cinema history, was involved as a writer in relatively few of his films, and *none of his classics*.
Not true at an 'indie level' you might say? Sure it is. Many of the above did more collaborations early on (when they were much less successful or even completely unknown) than later. And in general, collaborations are very common in every written form except novels and poetry.
So...no...collaborating with a writer, or having someone else write for you, is neither inadvisable, inherently dysfunctional, or any other pejorative you might throw at it...
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roei z
Veteran
thanks Clark, i mostly agree with your words. it's as if all i need to do is connect to a soul of a script and then i will even feel more free to let myself go and direct it as best as i can. i feel that when the whole idea is mine, it's actually kind of a burden on my back.
Ted Spencer
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You're welcome! I hope It's been encouraging too...
roei z
Veteran
btw i'm trying to contact your colleague alex.
waiting for his response.
(his site looks pretty nice. tons of scripts to check and discuss with him).
i sure hope to find someone who presents a very different style of "worlds" within the scripts.
it doesn't mean it has to be "crazy". "lost highway" is the first that comes to mind.
darker, deeper, perhaps twisted sides of reality, inner turmoils of the human souls- those are hard to come by. (but which i like best
)
that's what i sort of tried in my screenplay, but couldn't quite grasp the core itself in some way. well i thought i did, but now i don't.
waiting for his response.
(his site looks pretty nice. tons of scripts to check and discuss with him).
i sure hope to find someone who presents a very different style of "worlds" within the scripts.
it doesn't mean it has to be "crazy". "lost highway" is the first that comes to mind.
darker, deeper, perhaps twisted sides of reality, inner turmoils of the human souls- those are hard to come by. (but which i like best
)that's what i sort of tried in my screenplay, but couldn't quite grasp the core itself in some way. well i thought i did, but now i don't.
Searcher
Well-known member
No you are not wrong. And this kind of "intimate" filmmaking will become more and more common as people start to believe in themselves and what is possible with a small crew and cast. Monsters has to be a touchstone for keeping things simple. Also I think people are starting to really appreciate a "natural" look in films where the use of lighting is less of a necessity- and the newer more sensitive cameras really help in this regard.
Don't get me wrong. I love big productions but there's room for all sorts.
And just because you think you are not a great writer does not mean you should necessarily give up. You shot a film. That's awesome. I agree with the person who suggested getting a new pair of fresh eyes to do a new edit.
Or it might be complete crap and you shouldn't waste any more time on it? I guess you have to work that out. Sounds like you got some poor reactions to the rough cut but people have been wrong before -> http://susiesmith13.tripod.com/id12.html
How about posting the first ten minutes of the rough cut on Vimeo with a password and letting us see it? Or just me ;-)
And honestly it might not be the best film but have you watched many films made lately with zero budget? It might be that "finishing" the film and scoring it etc and submitting it to a film festival or three it will find an audience? And a film is made three times right? Once in the writing, once in the shooting and once in the editing.
I guess I just feel like there's enough in those rushes you posted on vimeo to make me want to see a more polished version.
Rolf Silber
Veteran
Now - the situation in the states and in some "other countries" (for instance here where I am) may be slightly different. In Germany we have about 200 to 300 scriptwriters who somehow make a living by writing for the moving picture industry - films for theatrical release, TV-Movies, TV-Serials. While the industry on your side of the pond seems to be able to surf on a tsunami of scripts written "on spec", in Europe you more often have the situation that a writer is asked to develop something and that script writing itself is seen as an craft & art that needs a lot of experience.
This is changing too and not to the better, I presume, because we have many universities by now who found it "chic" to have a film department too. Which is a mixed blessing: Now the place get's swamped with sometimes rather well written but empty "me too" scripts - but sometimes a writer appears from an unexpected "source" who really has some originality. So, my mistake, I referred to a writer who - under the European conditions - makes a decision to try and make his living with a keyboard. It still happens here to some.
roei z
Veteran
Making a living from scriptwriting can invole writing
For tv, which in most cases end up being too controlled by producers. Same in hollywood.
I guess most of those writers keep writing their 'real'
scripts, and this is the real area i am lookin for.
It's somewhat the same as me, working a day job in editing
All sorts of garbage promo stuff, and trying to create
'by night'. You are talking about 2 different worlds here.
Only a Very small precentage get to creat exactly what they want In their day jobs.
For tv, which in most cases end up being too controlled by producers. Same in hollywood.
I guess most of those writers keep writing their 'real'
scripts, and this is the real area i am lookin for.
It's somewhat the same as me, working a day job in editing
All sorts of garbage promo stuff, and trying to create
'by night'. You are talking about 2 different worlds here.
Only a Very small precentage get to creat exactly what they want In their day jobs.
j1clark@ucsd.edu
Veteran
The 'problem' in Germany is a bit more complex than that... When ever I go to Germany I always head for some place to buy DVDs (and now BD) of 'german' films... what I'm usually confronted with is rows up upon rows of dubbed (Germans seem to hate 'subtitles' as much as Americans it would seem...) Hollywood productions, and a sparse showing of 'german' productions...
TV is similar... while "Kommisar Rex" may be seen in other places in the world... it is not seen in the US... Occasionally a 'german' film will escape, and be a 'hit', such as "Lola Rennt"(1998) and Tom Tykwer has had a few director opportunities in the US (or at least English language films...), but I personally like his 'german' films better...
Ok, there is one 'translation' I prefer... I prefer "The Parent Trap"(1960) over the "Das dopplte Lottchen"(1950)... what can I say... but I would prefer "Die Wilden Hühner"(2006) over anything 'for children' that I've seen from Disney of late...
Bernd Eichinger and the Neue Contantin Film did do more 'international' films... but unfortunately (as seen from 'german' film writers...) there were a large number of English language productions... heck, "Das Parfum"(2006) was cast with English speaking actors... and dubbed into German... (who ever dubbed Dustin Hoffman did not really get his 'vocializations'... but I digress...).
Then there's Uwe Boll...
Rolf Silber
Veteran
We would derail this thread even more, if we would be going to discuss "The German Situation"..... ;-)
Language barriers but much more cultural barriers and traditions made (and to a certain extend still makes) German script writers(-ing) a bit too "introspective" for my taste and for an international audience. About Eichinger: He made much more money than most people realize with German comedies - comedies that would for a lot reasons reasons "not travel" that well.
"Das Leben der Anderen" or strange quirky comedies like "Wer früher stirbt ist länger tot" ... there is some potential.... but we suffer from not being able to really get across the hurdles that international audiences either expect us to bombard them with films that pretend to be intellectually "deep" and very "germanoid" ... or they expect something like "The Downfall".
Back to topic: Writers can make a living here and be in the business for a long time but clearly they have to be professionals in the sense that they realize not everything they will be writing for a living will be what they really love...... but maybe only what they may like.
Rolf Silber
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I beg to disagree a bit - apart from the handful of real giants in the business like Kubrick for instance was, absolutely nobody who enters the world of film will under any circumstances ever get "exactly what they want". I think we all get - at best - something that is similar to what we want. And it's not even a bad thing, imho.
roei z
Veteran
you're right, i didn't mean it this "exact" way..
i mean that, most of the creative people I know, here in Israel,
either work their day jobs at shooting crappy commercials or "hired" directorial badly written stuff,
OR- the ones that do make what they want WITHIN the industry, mostly make crap. that's why they can do it.
and the more Indy, exceptional, different directors are almost not to be found, or making stuff on a very low basis.
once every couple of years or so. forget about seeing money from it.
i don't know how it goes in Europe.
that's why i see it as the best bet- completing stuff mostly on my own (especially now with the GH2 power)-
except the writing part
Rolf Silber
Veteran
For the time being I would not call what I do professionally "crap" - I can make a distinction between the things I like to do and the ones where I am the "lance for hire". But it is becoming harder by the day. But I still am in a somewhat privileged situation
Weekend a group of comedians & writers will meet at my flat and we will see what we may do in February to find a bit more "breathing"-space with short clips outside the pro-world. In this sense you are perfectly right: Digital video gives this freedom. In Germany (as in France and some other EU countries) funding for arthouse movies is a bit easier as elsewhere because of funding by state and certain institutions. It's only a bureaucratic nightmare....