my experience making my first low-budget feature

[roei z]

Hi.
i wanted to share and consult with you some of my experience with a feature i was trying to make.

i bought the GH2 once it got out, testing it and deciding i could make a super low budget film with it, using vintage FD's.
i'm usually a one man do it all person (i used to shoot, edit and direct shorts on and off through the years, and i edit trailers in my day job).
so i had a basic idea for a main hero in a dark Lynch type of feel.
i wrote a full screenplay in a few months and thought it was pretty original and unique.
and then i started shooting slowly with my girlfriend as sound recorder, with a main non-actor i took a chance with.
after i shot a few scenes, (Around 20% of the script), the actor chickened out and quit.
it was kind of lucky cause he couldn't carry the character anyway.
so after a while i decided to be more serious, pay a minimum (full pay "if and when") for actors and a serious sound guy.
so, i finished shooting most of the scenes and was happy to pass the main difficulty.
then i spent 2 weeks syncing audio and video, and then edited some shots that looked really good and had a good feel:
http://vimeo.com/25975171
after that i finally decided to edit a kind of a rough cut, and start showing it to a few friends, and around 5-6 producers that showed interest.
my goal was to get sponsored by a producer who could elevate the film and get the rest of the budget needed.

and then i woke up-
all the people who saw the rough cut thought it didn't work at all. acting and script were too problematic and simply not good enough.
so, i finally understood where i failed.
i was too eager to start shooting, and didn't really shared the script with many people. and when a friend DID tell me there were some problems with it, i simply didn't listen and moved on, thinking i should believe in the spirit of the film, the feel and darkness of the story.

i got a bit traumatized by all this, putting it all aside and not being able to look at a frame of the footage since then (a few months ago).

so now i can slowly turn back and think on my position.
now that the GH2 got hacked and being the best bet on a budget features, i can start imagining new goals for myself.
i'll be glad to hear any shared thoughts on my "case", any tips, any ideas that might take me to a new path.

my main options at the moment:

-when i'll be able to, face the footage and edit some version that will work, even at 30 minutes, whatever.
-leave it for now, and start writing a new idea. not to be far fetched, think really small for now, start with a short, perhaps even in the dvxfests here.

i am convinced i'm a decent director, shooter and editor, maybe not on a full feature yet, but good enough to believe in myself.
BUT- i MUST find someone who can write for me or with me. it's obviously my weakest part, and i didn't find someone here in Israel. maybe through HERE?
i'm trying to read some scripts that won in those scriptfests but they're not online anymore.
i really wish to collaborate with someone from the writers around here.
i know there's a language barrier but maybe it's possible to somehow work together.
i tent to go for the easy to produce stories, situation driven with dark story and characters, a touch of horror and thriller, with some dark humor. some action and violence could also be nice. again, targeting a short film at start, 5-10 minutes.

thanks for reading and waiting for any thoughts on the matter.

 

[Jordan Scott Price]

A few things stand out to me:

For one, don't jump into a feature unless you have everything you need to make it happen. Shorts are huge undertakings alone; a feature can be downright suffocating if not done properly. It takes months - usually years - of planning, writing, rewriting, funding, and more planning to pull it off.

Secondly, if you want to be able to put a quality film together, I highly recommend finding a DP with whom you can work and whose work you enjoy. Trying to direct AND shoot is going to be disastrous. The performances will always sink if you are trying to direct and operate the camera or direct the lighting. When you have a strong relationship with your DP, the two of you will feed off each other and anticipate each others' moves, which makes the process invigorating, not exhausting.

And, absolutely, start with shorts. Master the craft of the short form, then move on to features. Many would argue shorts are harder to make than features - shorts are shown in droves at festivals, so they have to be really, really good; you have to hook, tell, and get out as fast as possible; less room for error in the story, continuity, or performance; etc. - but features are daunting undertakings than can snuff you out before you even shoot one frame. Also, be very careful making "horror" shorts. Horror stories - at least, good ones - are built on the audience gradually feeling more uncomfortable as the film progresses; shorts don't have that kind of time. Dark humor, however, can be a real winner in a short.

Also, find a good producer. As the Director, you shouldn't have to worry about locations and call times and people dropping out - that is for your producer(s) to worry about.

I think DVXUser is a great place to find connections, air out ideas for scripts, and get feedback. The Screenwriting subforum is always active with people talking about story ideas and such. You may even find crew here.

Just my thoughts.

 

[roei z]

A few things stand out to me:

For one, don't jump into a feature unless you have everything you need to make it happen. Shorts are huge undertakings alone; a feature can be downright suffocating if not done properly. It takes months - usually years - of planning, writing, rewriting, funding, and more planning to pull it off.

Secondly, if you want to be able to put a quality film together, I highly recommend finding a DP with whom you can work and whose work you enjoy. Trying to direct AND shoot is going to be disastrous. The performances will always sink if you are trying to direct and operate the camera or direct the lighting. When you have a strong relationship with your DP, the two of you will feed off each other and anticipate each others' moves, which makes the process invigorating, not exhausting.

And, absolutely, start with shorts. Master the craft of the short form, then move on to features. Many would argue shorts are harder to make than features - shorts are shown in droves at festivals, so they have to be really, really good; you have to hook, tell, and get out as fast as possible; less room for error in the story, continuity, or performance; etc. - but features are daunting undertakings than can snuff you out before you even shoot one frame. Also, be very careful making "horror" shorts. Horror stories - at least, good ones - are built on the audience gradually feeling more uncomfortable as the film progresses; shorts don't have that kind of time. Dark humor, however, can be a real winner in a short.

Also, find a good producer. As the Director, you shouldn't have to worry about locations and call times and people dropping out - that is for your producer(s) to worry about.

I think DVXUser is a great place to find connections, air out ideas for scripts, and get feedback. The Screenwriting subforum is always active with people talking about story ideas and such. You may even find crew here.

Just my thoughts.

thanks for responding.
most of what you say i somewhat learned during the process.
but the thing is, i really find that i'm at my best when dealing with the minimum people as possible through my work.
except from story writing and scripts, of course
the main reason to take this lonely rout was to be able to be limitless in my thoughts, actions, decisions and feelings.
it doesn't mean i didn't think of involving another editor when the time comes, or edit from scratch.
i know it makes other problems as you described, but i thought i could get over them somehow.
the main limitations HAVE to go into considerations in the script itself-
which means, thinking of a story that uses the available atmosphere with the minimum need of production.
i know it's not easy. but i was thinking along the lines of Hitchcock and Lynch.. injecting tons of feel into the scenes.
besides the reason it failed because of aspects you pointed out,
the core of the weak result in my opinion is the script and characters.
there were better scenes and weaker scenes, but the basic plot and story played around 70% of it.

 

[OldCorpse]

Hi - thank you for putting this out here. This is important, because it's real life - this is what happens to many, many people just starting out in film. The impatience to shoot - there are two ways to think about it. One, is the obvious, as you experienced, you go in without enough resources in script, acting, crew, money or experience. But, there is another way to think about it - you had to do it. You didn't have the option to wait until everything was perfect, because that way you can wait until you are 400 years old and never shoot a frame. What did you get out of shooting this "prematurely" without enough resources? You got something extremely important - you got knowledge. Now you know what you can and can't do. Take it back in thought:

"and when a friend DID tell me there were some problems with it, i simply didn't listen and moved on, thinking i should believe in the spirit of the film, the feel and darkness of the story."

Well, how could you know you would be wrong without doing it? You had a choice - trust your own instincts and improvisational abilities, or listen to criticism from outsiders. Without actually shooting - testing this - you would never know the answer. Now you know. There really was only one way to find out - to shoot. What you learned was the limits of "believe in your instinct" and "I'll just fix it with atmosphere". Next time you have this situation, you will have this experience to draw upon.

That is why I don't think this film should be put in the way you did - like a trauma. It was very, very valuable. Without doing it, you would never move forward as an artist. You should thank yourself for going forward. It's like losing your virginity - it may hurt a bit, but it is necessary if you want to f... eh, forget this analogy. Many directors made terrible first features. But apparently they had to do it to find their way forward.

Now when you think about making a movie, you will think about all the experiences you had and you'll be much better off than before. Don't hate this experience - love it, because it was a great Teacher.

I'll have some more thoughts about your situation now going forward, later on... right now, I have to get back to work

 

[clang]

We see exactly the same problems all the time with Hollywood features costing hundreds of millions - if you don't have a great script (with great characters and plot), you've got nothing. There's nothing anyone can do during production or post-production to fix script problems.

As you've discovered, the downside of writing and making your own film is that it's easy to be blind to your own script's problems. Time can help with that - put the script away for at least six months then read it again, wou'll be amazed how many flaws are suddenly obvious. But getting constructive criticism from others is even better - if you can find people who can give useful constructive criticism.

I totally agree with Jordan that you should do more shorts - it's better (and easier) to make 9 ten minute shorts, some of which turn out good, rather than one mediocre 90 minute feature...

 

[roei z]

thanks for the ultra positive attitude , OldCorpse.

all the replies are very interesting to read, and also varies in different way of seeing many aspect of things.
nice.

but don't forget, http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/member.php?66736-Jordan-Scott-Price Jordan, i live in Israel and try to do my best here. totally different attitude.
i will do my best trying to collaborate with screenwriters here in dvxuser.
i don't know if it's possible to do it between two countries and languages, but i'm willing to try.
i still don't have any idea about what kind of writers hang around here,
and i just can't find a way to get to past scriptfest winners. any ideas? all the viewing links are dead.
it could be a good place to feel how people write here, especially for short scripts.

 

[Kholi]

Good post, Corpse.

 

[OldCorpse]

Thanks, Kholi.

Couple of other thoughts, roei. Just trying to be realistic, collaboration with a writer is hard for a first time director - or a director that is not established. I'm not saying it never happens, but look at the careers of those who come up - a lot of them wrote their own stuff: just off the top of my head, R. Rodriguez, Tarantino, Jarmusch, Aronofsky, Scorsese, Soderberg, Shane Carruth, Guy Ritchie, Nolan, Kevin Smith, Sam Raimi, Night Shyamalan, oh the list goes on and on and on. Actually, it's pretty rare for an indie directing career to get started not writing your own stuff... can you think of one?

Isn't this something to think about?

Here's another realistic thing. Good writers are rare. Rare. I have all the respect in the world for the writers on DVXuser, but I'm just being real with you - it's very, very, very rare. Guess what the odds are you'll find one, who is not going to want to direct his own stuff. Also: if he's really good, he's already a professional who is making $$$ in Hollywood. So you want to find a really good writer who is great, but somehow can't get work in Hollywood, and doesn't want to direct, but is happy to choose YOU - of all the directors in the world - to collaborate on a script?

I'm not saying this to be negative. I'm saying this to be real, because I respect you enough to tell you this. You may end up wasting a lot of time looking for a writer and end up with not much to show for it.

What I'm getting at, is that sometimes life deals us unpleasant options. You may have no option. You can gamble on getting a great writer - but the truth is, you are unlikely to succeed at that. So, you do what you have to do. When you have no access to a great writer, what will you do - not shoot the movie, ever, or write it yourself? Yes, you may not be very good, but then, the solution is not to get another weak writer, but to get better yourself. You must get better at writing.

That's the most efficient option, in my humble opinion. I believe this is the only realistic way. It's better to think about that now, instead of wasting a lot of time - maybe years - looking for a great writer. Try to get better at writing yourself. Watch films as stories. Think about it. Read screenplays. Think about them. Not only will you become a better writer, but you'll become a better director.

I hope this saves you some time, and represents some food for thought, even if it sounds like a hard thing to say.

 

[roei z]

thanks,
i thought i might have a chance to find some short script writers here who would just like to write and might have interesting ideas..
am i that off the track?
it's indeed very quiet around the script writers here.. no one really bothers to answer me.

 

[Jordan Scott Price]

which means, thinking of a story that uses the available atmosphere with the minimum need of production.
i know it's not easy. but i was thinking along the lines of Hitchcock and Lynch.. injecting tons of feel into the scenes.

This is interesting. Can you elaborate? What do you mean about injecting "feel."

You have to remember, too, that a great script will not make your movie. Just because there is life, depth, character, conflict, business, action, and emotion in your script does NOT mean the performances will be good. That is for you, as a Director, to imbue into the film - those qualities are the essence of what you're capturing with a camera. I have seen good Directors turn a flat script into a beautiful film by working with the actors to create depth and life in each scene - sometimes without shooting the scene with anything other than a wide shot.

If you have not read it yet, buy Directing Actors by Judith Weston. It is my bible when I direct and one of the greatest filmmaking resources, in my opinion, and others here will agree.

 

[PopcornFlix]

+1 on directing more shorts.

Shorts give you more experience faster. They help you improve more rapidly.

Re the existing footage: finish it. Finishing projects is an important skill to practice. Many artists sabotage themselves by leaving a trail of unfinished projects and no body of work. Get into the habit now of finishing everything you start. That will also serve the purpose of making you consider very carefully before agreeing to start something.

Also, once you get a rough cut, show it to some friends who are good at story to see if you can fix it with reshoots. There may be a way to add a little new footage and save the picture. It worked for CASABLANCA.

You might consider the idea that you are a visual stylist like Lynch, instead of a writer-director. Try visiting a writer-heavy forum like trigger street.com or done deal.com. Lots of competent semipro writers there who would like to have something produced.

HTH.

 

[roei z]

This is interesting. Can you elaborate? What do you mean about injecting "feel."

i do understand what you mean by turning a flat script to a "lively" one. question is, the difference between flat and bad.
one way of injecting feel into something out of nothing is THIS experiment i did..
not exactly what you mean, but with a decent script that has those kind of moment along with some interesting characters,
i believe i can pull it off as a director.

 

[roei z]

You might consider the idea that you are a visual stylist like Lynch, instead of a writer-director. Try visiting a writer-heavy forum like trigger street.com or done deal.com. Lots of competent semipro writers there who would like to have something produced.

thanks
something fresh to investigate!

*wow, these are serious sites.
i registered to trigger st, and i need to start reviewing stuff.
how do i talk or contact writers there?

 

[Hutchman]

Hi Roei,

First of all, those shots on vimeo are really nice. I especially love the opening shot, reminded me of the opening to CRASH. How did you do it? Car mount?

Your footage certainly looks a lot better than movies like MARICAHI and Chris Nolan's FOLLOWING, which were shot on grungy 16mm.

You should check out FOLLOWING which is online for free:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6618880831029867065

It's a solid, but not exceptional film. Script is pretty good, but the acting, direction, lighting is so-so. But it got a release and Nolan went on to direct MEMENTO and the rest, as they say, is history.

If you want to make yourself feel better, try and track down Tarantino's first feature, MY BEST FRIEND'S BIRTHDAY. I don't think the whole movie exists anymore, but some of it does, and it's AWFUL. Truly bad. But Tarantino said he learned a lot from it and a couple of years later he made RESERVOIR DOGS.

I'm also reminded of an ad Michael Jordan made for Nike some years ago. He talked about all the failures he had in his life - a LOT - and finally concluded:

"I have failed over and over in my life. And that is why I succeed".

You learn a lot more from your failures. Stick with it, man.

PS How did the audio turn out? I'm curious. And what audio equipment did you use?

 

[Searcher]

Hi Roei! I was one of the people getting excited by your project over in the GH2 section and I've been wondering how you were doing. Glad to hear you want to get back on the horse even if you're a bit bruised and battered.

You shot a feature- you should be proud.

Judging from your vimeo footage you know how to shoot and how to direct.

Seriously all you need is a great script and you'll probably make a good film. I have decided that the script has the to be the best thing about your film. I've been reading a bunch of scripts lately and while I didn't think some of the films were that good when I watched them, ALL the scripts were amazing. Only Chinatown and Rear Window were directed and shot at the same quality as the scripts were written. I concluded from this that if you don't start with a great script you're pretty much screwed. The script is at the core of your film. If the core is rotten then you're screwed. I don't know if I've explained myself very well but what I'm saying is that basically the more I read scripts the more I realise how the script is the single most important aspect of a good film. It sounds obvious but it's amazing how many people half ass the script.

You had the patience and determination to write a feature script. That' more than a lot of people are able to achieve. And like Corpse said if you wait for everything to be perfect you could be waiting a long time.

So become a better writer. Start writing your next feature and this time take as long as it takes for it to be the best script you can write. Write multiple drafts and take feedback very seriously.

How many scripts and script writing books have you read?

 

[roei z]

Hi Roei,


You should check out FOLLOWING which is online for free:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6618880831029867065

It's a solid, but not exceptional film. Script is pretty good, but the acting, direction, lighting is so-so. But it got a release and Nolan went on to direct MEMENTO and the rest, as they say, is history.



PS How did the audio turn out? I'm curious. And what audio equipment did you use?

thanks.
yes, like i said, i have enough confidence as a director, shooter, etc.
i just thought about it and realized, that even if i shoot myself and loose some of the control on acting,
i tend to have a lot more confidence in myself while I have the camera. like a weapon, it makes me more focused.

about Following, yes i saw it before i made the feature. i remember it was nice as a low budget. and yes the story was solid,
except that i started to figure out the end before Nolan meant i would
i wish i could translate my script so that some people here would read and make things more clear for me.
right now i feel it's so unbaked that i cannot even look at it.

*btw- getting released and interested by producers is tons harder here in Israel than in more artistically motivated countries.

about audio- most of the scenes sound nice. uncontrollable locations have some problems.
the sound guy had his own device (don't remember exactly), only that it was better than my DR-100 and was more professional.
also bought NTG-3.

i still think that my best enviourment is using a "16mm way"- minimum lighting if required, sound guy and myself.
of course the story needs to be written "right" (production wise) for this to work.

 

[roei z]

Hi Roei! I was one of the people getting excited by your project over in the GH2 section and I've been wondering how you were doing. Glad to hear you want to get back on the horse even if you're a bit bruised and battered.

You shot a feature- you should be proud.

Judging from your vimeo footage you know how to shoot and how to direct.

Seriously all you need is a great script and you'll probably make a good film. I have decided that the script has the to be the best thing about your film. I've been reading a bunch of scripts lately and while I didn't think some of the films were that good when I watched them, ALL the scripts were amazing. Only Chinatown and Rear Window were directed and shot at the same quality as the scripts were written. I concluded from this that if you don't start with a great script you're pretty much screwed. The script is at the core of your film. If the core is rotten then you're screwed. I don't know if I've explained myself very well but what I'm saying is that basically the more I read scripts the more I realise how the script is the single most important aspect of a good film. It sounds obvious but it's amazing how many people half ass the script.

You had the patience and determination to write a feature script. That' more than a lot of people are able to achieve. And like Corpse said if you wait for everything to be perfect you could be waiting a long time.

So become a better writer. Start writing your next feature and this time take as long as it takes for it to be the best script you can write. Write multiple drafts and take feedback very seriously.

How many scripts and script writing books have you read?

it's obvious that script writing and deep character study is not my talent.
i think i must at least try to collaborate once. but as people here said, it's even harder to achieve that writing alone.
especially when i live in Israel and have a different cultural codes and behaviors..

 

[Erich Ocean]

and then i woke up-
all the people who saw the rough cut thought it didn't work at all. acting and script were too problematic and simply not good enough.

IMO, you need to bring on another editor (and this is also an area where a good producer would have helped).

I see a lot of stuff that's in rough cut form and it's universally terrible. Really bad. And this is footage being made by experienced, industry people like yourself, oftentimes with substantial budgets (for indie film).

The truth is, many, many things can be fixed in the edit suite. It's actually quite amazing.

Having a separate editor really, really helps, so let someone else take a crack at the raw footage and see what they come up with. Then, and only then, should you throw in the towel.

 

[roei z]

IMO, you need to bring on another editor (and this is also an area where a good producer would have helped).

I see a lot of stuff that's in rough cut form and it's universally terrible. Really bad. And this is footage being made by experienced, industry people like yourself, oftentimes with substantial budgets (for indie film).

The truth is, many, many things can be fixed in the edit suite. It's actually quite amazing.

Having a separate editor really, really helps, so let someone else take a crack at the raw footage and see what they come up with. Then, and only then, should you throw in the towel.

i should definitely try this.
but right now it's quite hard for me to invest myself again emotionally into all this.
i have a friend who might get in and help me on this.
yyyyyach, just thinking of seeing the footage again

 

[Ted Spencer]

Sounds like Erich might have the right idea re: an outside editor. I know how it feels to not want to look at your work for a while. I've got a script out for feedback to numerous folks right now, and for the time being I do *not* want to look at it myself. It's been about a month since I signed off on the 'feedback draft', and I haven't read it since.

If, as you say, you have an editor friend willing to take a crack at it I'd say jump on it. S/he'll have fresh eyes, and what s/he comes up with will be at least substantially 'new' to you, allowing your eyes to 'freshen' a bit as well. S/he might come up with some great solutions for you as well, but even if not you've lost nothing. You can always recut.

(Dual gender references added here in part because great editors are quite often female)