My 4K acquisition has been solved. What do you think?

Marino215

Marino215

Well-known member
Been mulling over options for my fs700 and the best I've come up with is maybe I should consider taking a good look at the Black Magic Production Camera. It has 4k, RAW, Prores and DNxHD. The images I'll bet will look great, true it apparently lacks in some areas that's why I'll keep my FS700 and only rent a recorder when I need it. 2 cameras are better than one and the fs700 isn't no slouch and hopefully the bmpc won't be either. I'm over the whole Sony misled us from the very beginning feeling. (as we see from other manufactures the big guys just don't care that much) I have a pix 240 hopefully they'll allow 10-bit S-log out the back and I'll be a happy camper. Thank God for Convergent design it's certainly a practical alternative and I believe a great option however for me 2 cameras seems like the better way to go for now. Thanks. I feel like I needed to share that :)
 
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The BMCC 4K doesn't shoot RAW. If you want RAW then you'll need to get the 2.5K version.

The Odyssey 7Q + FS700 is waaaaaaay better than a BMCC. High speed 2K RAW, high ISO, built in ND, etc.
 
? Sure it shoots raw. Like the 16mm 2.5k version in compresed CinemaDNG, but its QuadHD not real4k.
 
Thanks Tony

Thanks Tony

NextWaveG said:
The BMCC 4K doesn't shoot RAW. If you want RAW then you'll need to get the 2.5K version.

The Odyssey 7Q + FS700 is waaaaaaay better than a BMCC. High speed 2K RAW, high ISO, built in ND, etc.
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Thanks for your input and the chance to say thanks for breaking the Sony fs700 story. Appreciate all your insight and hard work. You asked Juan the questions we all wanted to know. I don't know how you got it out of him but you certainly did. This past year has been wonderfully obscure since purchasing the camera. I love the fs700, but between a new computer build, the camera, rig, recorder and sound kit I'm just looking for some relief. I can't work fast enough to recoup my investment. Now realistically with the CD Odyssey recorder there goes another 6 grand...ha. I'm not complaining, just want the kit complete without keep spending money. At least for a little while. But I know you're right, and most likely will go that route. I can't wait till the highlight issue is solved (not that it's that bad) and I'd like more latitude. All issues addressed with this upgrade, so I'm in it for the long haul I guess. Again thanks Tony, oh and maybe you can find out if Sony is unleashing 10-bit for S-Log? Nobody seems to have any answer yet. Haha. JK.

Best,
Anthony Marino
 
NextWaveG said:
The BMCC 4K doesn't shoot RAW. If you want RAW then you'll need to get the 2.5K version.

The Odyssey 7Q + FS700 is waaaaaaay better than a BMCC. High speed 2K RAW, high ISO, built in ND, etc.
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Yes.... BMCC 4K doesn't shoot RAW.. but BMPC - Black Magic Production Camera shoot RAW ... " The Blackmagic Production Camera 4K creates visually lossless compressed CinemaDNG RAW and ProRes 422 (HQ) files "

I don't know, maybe this 4K CinemaDNG RAW is not as good as FS-700 4K RAW, ( probably RAW from FS-700 better as it have more resolution (11.6 MBPXL ) for better processing, ) but I pre-order BMPC for the same reason: To have SECOND and BACK UP 4K RAW camera... when I get it I will be able to see how good it's RAW is.. I don't have enough money to have TWO FS-700 cameras with update, SSD and Recorders ... so.. why not to spend just $4500 for BMPC & 2 SSD's instead of another $8000+$1200 ? :)
 
here's to hoping tony is right. that being said, i would stay camera agnostic until you can see samples of both. to say one is "waaaaay better" than another without samples of either might be a tad presumptuous. but that's just my opinion
 
SergeSmArt said:
Yes.... BMCC 4K doesn't shoot RAW.. but BMPC - Black Magic Production Camera shoot RAW ... " The Blackmagic Production Camera 4K creates visually lossless compressed CinemaDNG RAW and ProRes 422 (HQ) files "

I don't know, maybe this 4K CinemaDNG RAW is not as good as FS-700 4K RAW, ( probably RAW from FS-700 better as it have more resolution (11.6 MBPXL ) for better processing, ) but I pre-order BMPC for the same reason: To have SECOND and BACK UP 4K RAW camera... when I get it I will be able to see how good it's RAW is.. I don't have enough money to have TWO FS-700 cameras with update, SSD and Recorders ... so.. why not to spend just $4500 for BMPC & 2 SSD's instead of another $8000+$1200 ? :)
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I wonder how many others are considering going that route? I think that makes the most sense having 2 cameras, one has slo mo, and is a decent run and gun and good low light performance and the other for latitude and DR. I'm confident both will intercut ok together so at this juncture having 2 cameras seems like the better route than spending $6,000 (CD) or $11,000 (Sony solution) on a recorder. Thanks for posting
 
Marino215 said:
I wonder how many others are considering going that route? I think that makes the most sense having 2 cameras, one has slo mo, and is a decent run and gun and good low light performance and the other for latitude and DR. I'm confident both will intercut ok together so at this juncture having 2 cameras seems like the better route than spending $6,000 (CD) or $11,000 (Sony solution) on a recorder. Thanks for posting
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Sorry.. but I mean to get BMPC in addition to UPDATE to 4K RAW and just RENTING $11,000 Sony solution, when client agree to pay for it... at list for beginning .. if and when I got MORE orders for 4K RAW shooting I can buy it :)
 
The BM4k is RAW capable, but it isn't shipping with that capability enabled, it will only be shipping with 4k ProRes 422, and a RAW update will come later. The biggest thing for me is that it is a 4k, high bit rate, high colour depth, and global shutter.

The news that the FS700 4k hardware update will only be ~$400USD is good news too.
 
SergeSmArt said:
What are you talking about ?? BMPC 4K isn't shipping YET... so why are you talking nonsense about "RAW update" ?? Are we talking about the same camera? -> http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicproductioncamera4k
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I didn't say it was shipping now, I said it will be shipping with 4k ProRes 422, and won't be able to record RAW until a later date when they will issue a RAW update.

http://herefortheweather.wordpress.com/2013/05/02/bmpc-4k-its-going-to-be-a-long-summer/

BMD announced at NAB 2013 that the BMPC-4K camera will initially ship with 10-bit 4:2:2 ProRes HQ 4K and 1080p recording capability (with Film/log or Video/Rec.709 gamma), and that its new lossless compressed 4K 12-bit RAW CinemaDNG recording feature might not be ready when the cam first ships. If the lossless compressed RAW feature becomes available after first ship, BMD says it’ll be part of a free firmware update. BMD hasn’t announced yet what exact data rate its new compressed RAW CinemaDNG format will be recorded at.
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Not nonsense.
 
It's becoming clear to me

It's becoming clear to me

Hi just like to say thanks for your comments, they all kinda make sense in one aspect or another and I appreciate your input. With that said, I'm coming to terms with the future capabilities on my fs700. I love the camera, it's like my first car. And like my first camera, the GH2 (cluster x T5 moon) the more I shoot with fs700 the more impressed I become. It really is a nice camera. In life I always strive to see the good and be greaful for what I have, so putting frustrations aside I'm getting excited to use my souped up fs700. Dynamic range, highlight roll off and latitude is what I'm looking to address and I'll admit this upgrade apparently checks those "boxes". So now I need to concentrate on what I need right now (each job) knowing down the road my fs700 along with the upgrade could satisfy my needs for at least a little while. Here's my rationale so far, if ever I need 4k Raw I'll rent the Sony solution. It's obviously made for the F line but can be used for the FS700, Sony made good on that. So that is one option (however, one I will try to avoid for the obvious reasons) So how about that CD Odyssey unit?...as a pix 240 owner I can see the CD odyssey is great alternative and I feel we're very lucky it's part of the equation. I am confident the camera will output more than 8 bits down the road, so i think we'll benefit even more with S-logII than 4k right now. From other posts, one actually talking to Dan Keating, I think we'll see higher HD-SDI output in the future. Sony should know that will subdue a lot of negative talk floating around about the fs700 upgrade. Hey I don't hate Sony, hats off to them for giving us tools that make great images. The F line seems fantastic and I like to think they listen to their customers. I hope they know if they raised output to 10 even 12-bits when the opportunity presents itself I will BUY the F5 in a heartbeat. Enabling 10 or even 12-bit will not stop me from purchasing their higher end camera. In other words it won't and could never cannibalize their higher end line. It's a different beast all together. Looking at it now i'm pretty sure Sony knows that to be the case. So here's to shutting my mouth and waiting patiently like the rest, all your comments are appreciated and I'll look out for more of your views. Thanks

Anthony
 
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atarijedi said:
I didn't say it was shipping now, I said it will be shipping with 4k ProRes 422, and won't be able to record RAW until a later date when they will issue a RAW update.

http://herefortheweather.wordpress.com/2013/05/02/bmpc-4k-its-going-to-be-a-long-summer/



Not nonsense.
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It is ! as you show me someone guessing instead official message from Black Magic Design ...
....and I don't think they will play with us, as if I will get a note about "NO RAW" in BMPC I will cancel my 3 cameras order... and many others will do the same... risky game for BMD company...
 
SergeSmArt said:
It is ! as you show me someone guessing instead official message from Black Magic Design ...
....and I don't think they will play with us, as if I will get a note about "NO RAW" in BMPC I will cancel my 3 cameras order... and many others will do the same... risky game for BMD company...
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It wasn't guessing, it was said at NAB that it might not ship with RAW. It's not "no raw", it is no raw "yet", as in RAW will be coming later because it is a compressed RAW and the codec might not be ready, they said that at NAB 2013.

Email them, they will tell you the same thing.

Here is an article from another blog, maybe one you have heard of, John Brawley, he has tested both cameras, instead of the other blog.

They are planning to introduce compressed RAW DNG’s later on down the track.
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The Production Model ? Well. If 4K, global shutter and super 35 is important to you then this is your camera. But the downside is you’re going to lose some DR. At least a stop and probably more. And you’ll loose a little ISO sensitivity as well. And you might not have RAW initially when it’s released, only ProRes.
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http://johnbrawley.wordpress.com/20...the-bmcc-and-does-a-4k-upsize-of-the-orginal/
 
atarijedi said:
It wasn't guessing, it was said at NAB
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I don't care about what was "SAID"... it was SAID about God and Heaven and you want me to believe it? :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)
...and I don't care about someone, who prefer to lose GLOBAL SHUTTER for one stop of DR... ... so, would you stop it, please?
 
This forum certainly has become contentious. So I will pay no more attention to it until Sony releases official information and pricing about the upgrade.
HAPPY SHOOTING EVERYBODY AND STOP BITCHIN' - LOL!!!
 
ksteiger said:
This forum certainly has become contentious. So I will pay no more attention to it until Sony releases official information and pricing about the upgrade.
HAPPY SHOOTING EVERYBODY AND STOP BITCHIN' - LOL!!!
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Just trying to warn people that according to BMD themselves at NAB, and one of their Beta Testers (John Brawley) that the BM4k probably won't ship with CinemaDNG compressed RAW, and only 10bit 4k ProRes 422, and it will be a codec update later on.
 
Actually with everyone "wet" over 4K raw.

I would humbly suggest that just maybe 4K Pro Rez files will be more than suitable for a majority of users ...never did Arri Alexa any harm. Then coupled with a global shutter for this price point is pretty bloody marvelous. All BM have to do is release it in July .......which is next month. Time will tell.
 
Hi,
I own an FS700 and I bought it with the misunderstanding that with a firmware upgrade I could shoot 4K on an attached SSD drive. I don't like the idea of paying $8,000 for a camera and then paying for firmware that is a factory update and everyone with that camera will want and paying a small fortune for equipment that will be needed for 4K. That is a heck of a lot for a camera and a big sacrifice for me. I wish I were that rich guy. I am hoping someone figures out a way to record directly to an SSD after the firmware upgrade with compressed 4K for us amateurs. I know it's all about the money, but, I want to have fun with my cameras and editing software and not break the bank. Why can't I use the Sony FMU that is just an SSD, like the Odyssey 7Q does to record the compressed 4K signal?
 
I can't believe I'm saying this and I'm not sticking up for Sony. They were never clear about anything since day one. It was always firmware update and proprietary recorder. They never said or hinted about anything through the FMU or SD it was always supposed to be recorded externally. There is hope, minus the measly hardware update Convergent Design has a recorder (OdysseyQ) that capture 2k Raw up to 240fps (impressive) and 4K compressed. The unit will sell reasonably at around $2300.00. You will be able to rent the codecs you desire or purchase a licensing fee for around $1200.00 (double check that please). What seems to be the most expensive proposition is the SSD's that are needed for the OdysseyQ to record 4k. It's almost about $3.00 per GB. Yes we were hoping cheaper. But in their defense I'd gladly pay more for media as long as it's stable and works well. I've had issues with other recorders and faulty or cheaper media that ruined some shots and cost me extra money. I do hope prices will fall in the future and other companies will address that issue but for now the OdysseyQ seems like a good investment to get the best out of your camera. On another note the firmware seems to be free, the hardware update relatively inexpensive and we will get S-LogII and a boost in iso performance and highlight roll off from what I saw so far. Let's hope the OdysseyQ device will be able to capture the S-log in a true 10-bit wrapper to a popular codec. Other than that there's not much more to expect from Sony once these effects take place. Thanks
 
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