Music Video Questions = Please Help

C

Cieloent

Well-known member
Regarding Music videos I have been doing this for a while but still feel I am not there yet. My main concern now is how do you balance performance and "b roll" ?


In the past as a young director I only focused on performances, but noticed that the projects come out lacking. So to this I started adding even basic story elements to the song. Now my question is this, when shooting a music video should you do more B roll to tell the story or just focus on performance or just a mixture of both?


Most artist I film do "Rap Music" so they obviously want to see themselves in front of the camera more than me focusing on things with the story. Any suggestions? This video is a perfect example imo of a balance of performance and story line








This is a level I would love to reach very soon and I am working really hard at it, what I love most about this video is I feel the director brought you into the artists world.


Thank you
 
the is definitely not the best example as this video is so lamely edited it's scary to think that anyone paid for this.

MVs are all about eye candy and slick editing. Eye candy comes from many sources - in the above example from color and depth of field. it can also come from lighting, framing, camera moves, art direction, content...

Then you throw all that coolness into hand of experienced editor... and only then if your MV still sucks that we can talk.
 
That was an extremely rude way to answer his question. You gave no useful fedback, and act like he has to reach your "level of talent" before he even gets the balls to talk to you.

@ the OP, I apologize for people like this on here. I thought some of the shots, DOF, lighting, etc. Was very good. Not the best example for my taste, but still good.

As for mixing performance with story, make sure to use the artist and his friends as the actors. That way they still get all the screen time they're paying for. But I'd really need to see some of your work to give my advice.

And again, I don't think it's the greatest video, but it's definitely not "scary to think that anyone paid for this."
 
To the poster above:

...its not his video, so I'm not quite sure at what you're getting at.

What is all this talk of camera and lenses? Seriously people?

People - respect what Patryk says, regardless of the way in which he may say it. He is good and he has work to back up what he says.

Kegan
 
I don't doubt his skills, but he didn't answer or help the OP. Why bother posting if he's not going to offer any real advice.
 
Patryk_Rebisz said:
the is definitely not the best example as this video is so lamely edited it's scary to think that anyone paid for this.

MVs are all about eye candy and slick editing. Eye candy comes from many sources - in the above example from color and depth of field. it can also come from lighting, framing, camera moves, art direction, content...

Then you throw all that coolness into hand of experienced editor... and only then if your MV still sucks that we can talk.
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Can you post an example of your Music Video you have done so I can see your style + vision. Also it does not bother me as everyone has an opinion, personally I like this video a lot and feel it was edited almost flawlessly, so if you can do better I would love to see it.


Also I went to your site but I seen movie clips and not actual music videos , so please direct me to the correct location. Now other than that can we please stay on topic as I do not want this thread to turn into a flame war


Thank you
 
Cieloent said:
Regarding Music videos I have been doing this for a while but still feel I am not there yet. My main concern now is how do you balance performance and "b roll" ?


In the past as a young director I only focused on performances, but noticed that the projects come out lacking. So to this I started adding even basic story elements to the song. Now my question is this, when shooting a music video should you do more B roll to tell the story or just focus on performance or just a mixture of both?


Most artist I film do "Rap Music" so they obviously want to see themselves in front of the camera more than me focusing on things with the story. Any suggestions? This video is a perfect example imo of a balance of performance and story line








This is a level I would love to reach very soon and I am working really hard at it, what I love most about this video is I feel the director brought you into the artists world.


Thank you
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I think that if you are to choose a music video to aspire to as a whole, you can do better than the example you chose. With that said, it's great you found something in this video you like and it is also good that you know what you are striving for, as that is the first step. Keep doing more research by watching more videos, find what you like and do not like. Then use those observations to shape the story/video you wish to make.

The example video you posted did seem badly edited. I say this because there are rack focus shots that cut away before the focus arrives at the end of the pull. Sure there is no 'wrong' way to do anything in film/video, but as a general rule, unless trying to cause the audience subtle anxiety, the editor should wait for the pull focus to arrive at its target. That is one of many problems. Your desire to mix a narrative story element with an artists performance, in this case a rapper, is honestly more of a directing choice. The editor will cut them together and add his or her own input, but in the end, you, the director, will make that call.

Since you posted in cinematography forum, I'll comment also on the image. Yes, I think the video does take you into the artists world in some of the interior shots. I liked the chair/fan/blue light shots. I also really liked the guy waiting to sell the drugs under the green light. That was great too! I felt that 'world'. Outside seemed realistic in the way that's what nighttime looks like, but it felt borderline ordinary and lacked a certain flare that I would have desired in a music video. Some shots were good though, although many were bland and exposure was a little all over the place. When I say flare, I don't mean lens flare, but I mean better use of light for style, and that doesn't mean needing large expensive lighting, but just a little more creative with placing the actors in naturally occurring lighting.

I'm happy you found a video that inspires you with certain aspects... use that in your video and keep finding other videos that have something about them you like. In the end, the video you posted is decent, but as a WHOLE it can be definitely be better, IMO.
 
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One of my favorite rap videos, and music videos in general, is Jay-Z's 99 Problems. Mark Romanek is a great director. You should look at some of his stuff. Just a friendly recommendation.
 
Ryan Patrick O'Hara said:
I think that if you are to choose a music video to aspire to as a whole, you can do better than the example you chose. With that said, it's great you found something in this video you like and it is also good that you know what you are striving for, as that is the first step. Keep doing more research by watching more videos, find what you like and do not like. Then use those observations to shape the story/video you wish to make.

The example video you posted did seem badly edited. I say this because there are rack focus shots that cut away before the focus arrives at the end of the pull. Sure there is no 'wrong' way to do anything in film/video, but as a general rule, unless trying to cause the audience subtle anxiety, the editor should wait for the pull focus to arrive at its target. That is one of many problems. Your desire to mix a narrative story element with an artists performance, in this case a rapper, is honestly more of a directing choice. The editor will cut them together and add his or her own input, but in the end, you, the director, will make that call.

Since you posted in cinematography forum, I'll comment also on the image. Yes, I think the video does take you into the artists world in some of the interior shots. I liked the chair/fan/blue light shots. I also really liked the guy waiting to sell the drugs under the green light. That was great too! I felt that 'world'. Outside seemed realistic in the way that's what nighttime looks like, but it felt borderline ordinary and lacked a certain flare that I would have desired in a music video. Some shots were good though, although many were bland and exposure was a little all over the place. When I say flare, I don't mean lens flare, but I mean better use of light for style, and that doesn't mean needing large expensive lighting, but just a little more creative with placing the actors in naturally occurring lighting.

I'm happy you found a video that inspires you with certain aspects... use that in your video and keep finding other videos that have something about them you like. In the end, the video you posted is decent, but as a WHOLE it can be definitely be better, IMO.
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Ok maybe can you post a video in the " Hip Hop/ Rap " genre that you liked. It doesn't need to be big budget it can be anything. Also I seen the videos by Patryk and I think his editing is fine but I personally do not like none of the artist he worked with so it was kind of hard to pay attention to what he was doing.

Also I'm not sure if this was the correct forum to post this thread, but I still ask the experience from everyones subject on this

Thank You
 
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I AGREE
 
diego1235467 said:
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I AGREE
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Great song + video + one of the best artist to ever do it.
 
Rap music is built on WORDS....it's very wordy music by nature...and when you try to capture the essense of the song on video, in my opinion, i favor more shots of the rapper than anything, but that's where it get's tricky...what story is he/she telling?...can the rapper be doing the things he's talking about in the video, or should you tell the story on behalf of the song, using actors?....one thing is for sure, it's harder than shooting a rock video with band member shots...without 4 or 5 other musicians to cut to, you have to captivate the viewer with only a single artist (in many cases)...

i don't think anything i have said has helped one bit, now that i've read what i wrote sofar.

Cieloent...if i heard a song you were possibly in line to make a video for, that could be
helpful. It helps me visualize so much more vividly, rather than recommending an "artist/b-roll story" ratio stardard. did i make one bit of sense?....i don't feel like i did hahaha
 
Chris Light said:
Rap music is built on WORDS....it's very wordy music by nature...and when you try to capture the essense of the song on video, in my opinion, i favor more shots of the rapper than anything, but that's where it get's tricky...what story is he/she telling?...can the rapper be doing the things he's talking about in the video, or should you tell the story on behalf of the song, using actors?....one thing is for sure, it's harder than shooting a rock video with band member shots...without 4 or 5 other musicians to cut to, you have to captivate the viewer with only a single artist (in many cases)...

i don't think anything i have said has helped one bit, now that i've read what i wrote sofar.

Cieloent...if i heard a song you were possibly in line to make a video for, that could be
helpful. It helps me visualize so much more vividly, rather than recommending an "artist/b-roll story" ratio stardard. did i make one bit of sense?....i don't feel like i did hahaha
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Great post and you did help a lot! I agree with you when you say rap is built on words and no this is not something we need to over think, it was only a question I had on balance between B Roll and Performances.

Of course you can have your typical rap song with cars, women, jewelry , etc. so that's stuff you can always cut to but it wasn't really what I was talking about. Regardless though thank you everyone for your help and I will continue to work at it


Thanks You
 
Ok, lets get it straight did you do the original video or not? If you did - and it was clear that you didn't in the original post - then i apologize for harsh criticism, cause there is no constructive criticism in insulting people's work as the first thing that naturally happens is their self defensive mechanism opens up and they don't listen, thus i would just point out the positive things: colors, DoF, but if you didn't then there is a whole other lever of professionalism you can aspire to - professionalism that is not found in the original video. Truth is i've done my share of MVs and with the pathetic budgets one has to look hard to make $ of those thus most assume that one can cut out the editor and save that $ by doing the edit them self, but it's not the case. Good, colorful images are lost in a pathetic edit of the original video, thus something that potentially could be hot is mediocre at best.

So the lesson of my post: don't skimp on the editor. Yes, it pains me when i have to spend $700-1000 of the budget to get the edit done, but trust me it's money well spend if you are thinking about growing in this business.
 
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Cieloent said:
Ok maybe can you post a video in the " Hip Hop/ Rap " genre that you liked. It doesn't need to be big budget it can be anything. Also I seen the videos by Patryk and I think his editing is fine but I personally do not like none of the artist he worked with so it was kind of hard to pay attention to what he was doing.

Also I'm not sure if this was the correct forum to post this thread, but I still ask the experience from everyones subject on this

Thank You
Click to expand...


Personally I hate, rap, hip-hop, and most similar music. But the point is, you watch everything you can and take what you can from everything...

The thing is, you are in the driver's seat of the visuals of a music video. You can make any 'visual' story you want, and given half a chance, many people will fill in the blanks as they internalize the sound/lyrics and visuals.

That is in fact the point of 'narrative' film making, that is inducing an emotional response from the viewer using a combination of visual/aural material.

As for the muscians wanting to be 'in front of the camera'... most performers want to do that in the music video world. The trick is to get them to do a 'story' in action, that they are uttering in words.
 
Patryk_Rebisz said:
Ok, lets get it straight did you do the original video or not? If you did - and it was clear that you didn't in the original post - then i apologize for harsh criticism, cause there is no constructive criticism in insulting people's work as the first thing that naturally happens is their self defensive mechanism opens up and they don't listen, thus i would just point out the positive things: colors, DoF, but if you didn't then there is a whole other lever of professionalism you can aspire to - professionalism that is not found in the original video. Truth is i've done my share of MVs and with the pathetic budgets one has to look hard to make $ of those thus most assume that one can cut out the editor and save that $ by doing the edit them self, but it's not the case. Good, colorful images are lost in a pathetic edit of the original video, thus something that potentially could be hot is mediocre at best.

So the lesson of my post: don't skimp on the editor. Yes, it pains me when i have to spend $700-1000 of the budget to get the edit done, but trust me it's money well spend if you are thinking about growing in this business.
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I apologize to you for not explaining my criticism of your criticism. It's just that when you have a professional such as yourself, we want to hear advice, instead of just comments/criticism. There are too many "pros" out there who are too busy stroking their own ego to help anyone else out, and that's how I felt about your original post. It's important to us amateurs to hear real advice from the pros. So again, I sounded a little harsh as well, and just wanted to hear real advice from you in order the help the OP. Now that you've cleared stuff up, I agree with your statements 100%. Just as people ignore the importance of sound design in films, they also ignore the importance of editing in MVs. Even video with average cinematography can turn into great videos with good editing.
 
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