music video pricing for musicians who can't afford anything

Design Media Consultants said:
Here is the irony. These bands are making money for playing, but they want you to work for free. They not only have expensive guitars, the amps and other equipment, they are getting paid! Do you think they would work for free at one of your events, to gain experience? I believe they need to pay something.
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Mostly, original bands are playing for little more than gas money. There simply isn't any decent money to be made from them. If you don't have a good reason to work for nothing or next to it, then don't do it. Good reasons may include gaining experience, building up your reel, liking the music or hanging with the musicians, but never what you might get from it in the future. 99.99% of the time that will be a big fat nothing. Never believe anyone who tells you that you'll be repaid for your efforts in the future, that's a fools game.

What I find ironic is how many filmmakers want actors to work for free (or cold pizza) and then get bent out of shape when someone can only offer them a small amount of money for their work.
 
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Capt Quirk said:
What part of iPhone don't you get? These newer phones are capable of better quality still and video than some of the cameras I had in the past. All sorts of people are contributing some amazing stuff, just with a smartphone. I got a quick gig in Palm Beach about 15 years ago, shooting something that was supposed to be a pilot for an MTV show. Being a new videographer, I was surprised that I was the only one there with Gaffer's tape, and enough cords and power supplies. While i was shooting some B Roll stuff, there was a gy with his assistant also shooting some B Roll. He was using a really tiny consumer cam on a mini steadycam unit, spinning it around, doing all sorts of waves with it. Nowadays, nobody has those cheap little video cameras, they get better results with an iPhones cam, and yes, there are steadycams and lenses, and other gear for them. No need to pay thousands for gear anymore, and anyone can do a video.
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The phone capabilities may have contributed to Craigslist music video gigs drying up. Adding to that, internet audiences don't seem to care about quality.

Circa 2012, there seemed to be more of a need for music videos from bands.

I've also noticed there are a number of famous bands that have low-budget music videos, webcam/cell phone footage edited together, that have got millions of views. Social media context appears more important.
 
GHKAM said:
The phone capabilities may have contributed to Craigslist music video gigs drying up. Adding to that, internet audiences don't seem to care about quality.

Circa 2012, there seemed to be more of a need for music videos from bands.

I've also noticed there are a number of famous bands that have low-budget music videos, webcam/cell phone footage edited together, that have got millions of views. Social media context appears more important.
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To make a comparison, how wildly popular was The Blair Witch Project? Next to no budget, no name actors, basic equipment, bad script and acting... it was still compelling.
 
Capt Quirk said:
To make a comparison, how wildly popular was The Blair Witch Project? Next to no budget, no name actors, basic equipment, bad script and acting... it was still compelling.
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Blair Witch spent nothing on the film, but there was a ton spent on marketing. There was still a lot of money spent there, it just was shifted from the production budget to the marketing budget.
 
If anyone cares, from the perspective of someone in a band, not with a label and at the bottom end of the "music industry" where presumably most of the people you guys are complaining about also are, the money thing works like this---bands may not get paid AT ALL by certain venues, unless they set up their own system of handling tickets/door and collect, but won't be paid by venue. Even if they are paid, it is usually token tiny amounts like $50 or $100, for the whole band. Sometimes it's based on how many people came specifically to see you ($5 per person that says at the door they're there for your band), sometimes it's based a percentage of the door or bar...which is not much unless you have a huge draw. If you can consistently get a lot of people to come out for you you can make a little money, but a good night for a band is what most video folks would consider a low ball rate. Cover/tribute bands can make a KILLING, original stuff is very tough to make anything. I'd consider doing covers if it was the music I liked.
 
Josh Bass said:
If anyone cares, from the perspective of someone in a band, not with a label and at the bottom end of the "music industry" where presumably most of the people you guys are complaining about also are, the money thing works like this---bands may not get paid AT ALL by certain venues, unless they set up their own system of handling tickets/door and collect, but won't be paid by venue. Even if they are paid, it is usually token tiny amounts like $50 or $100, for the whole band. Sometimes it's based on how many people came specifically to see you ($5 per person that says at the door they're there for your band), sometimes it's based a percentage of the door or bar...which is not much unless you have a huge draw. If you can consistently get a lot of people to come out for you you can make a little money, but a good night for a band is what most video folks would consider a low ball rate. Cover/tribute bands can make a KILLING, original stuff is very tough to make anything. I'd consider doing covers if it was the music I liked.
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So why are you in a band if there is no cash

A hobby?

well if your hobby is mountain biking you would pay for a mountain bike and all the kit. So if your band hobby wants a video.. then why not pay.. hobbies cost.


An investment in the future? You hope to hit it big and become a viable business.

Well people starting businesses pay for stock, premesis, and even promotion before one customer walks throught the door. Business costs.

Nothing you say above therefore creates a good argument to not pay for video work.
 
morgan_moore said:
So why are you in a band if there is no cash

A hobby?

well if your hobby is mountain biking you would pay for a mountain bike and all the kit. So if your band hobby wants a video.. then why not pay.. hobbies cost.


An investment in the future? You hope to hit it big and become a viable business.

Well people starting businesses pay for stock, premesis, and even promotion before one customer walks throught the door. Business costs.

Nothing you say above therefore creates a good argument to not pay for video work.
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Not necessarily supposed to be an argument for not paying, more to elaborate on the "muscians often really don't make any money" aspect of the discussion.
 
Barry_Green said:
Blair Witch spent nothing on the film, but there was a ton spent on marketing. There was still a lot of money spent there, it just was shifted from the production budget to the marketing budget.
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My point being, not more than 1 in 10 people don't know about it.
 
Josh Bass said:
Not necessarily supposed to be an argument for not paying, more to elaborate on the "muscians often really don't make any money" aspect of the discussion.
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I didnt realise that was an argument :)

Again Im not against stupid rates for fun projects that benefit all parties.

I just think the cinematographer should retain copyright as a form of self protection on the unexpected happening (success)
 
morgan_moore said:
I just think the cinematographer should retain copyright as a form of self protection on the unexpected happening (success)
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I didn't think that copyright ownership was even up for discussion!!!! Of course the cinematographer keeps the copyright and ownership of the video!

If, as expected, the band goes nowhere, or not very far, it doesn't matter except maybe to the local media when one of the band dies, runs for mayor or gets arrested etc.

OTOH if the band makes it, highly unlike but..... then owning the video is the payback for going out on a limb and doing a freebie.

Even for "free" stuff there should be a quid pro quo. At one end it is because you like the band and want to help them for the fun of it though to them getting you a gig with the Stones or some serious paying work. I say "or" as I think many of us would do a video with the Rolling Stones just for the experience. That footage would be worth something is a few years time.
 
Ok no fair. One time I made a crude joke a few years ago and got blasted for being a pig. Now it's open season. HOW AM I TO KNOW WHICH WAY THE WIND IS BLOWING??????
 
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