MUSIC VIDEO for GEFFEN RECORDS - "Love is Wicked"

Okay, look -- here's what it is. Let's say your boss came to you and said "Brandon, we think you're so talented, we've decided to fire everyone else in your department, plus we're going to cut your pay from $20/hr to $8/hr. But we still expect you to turn in the same amount of work and the same quality of work."

Would you think that's a good thing, something to be hopeful about? Because that's EXACTLY what we're talking about here.
 
I think it's pretty rare that people are hired just for the sake of giving them jobs. That's no way to run a business.

I'd submit that the people you thought were unnecessary actually were peforming valuable functions -- perhaps not at the moment you were observing them, but they weren't there for nothing.

It's not even so much "that's how it's done." It's very much "when we do this, the results are excellent." You can usually see it on the screen, too, when compared to the productions which don't put as much money into it.

It's not just film production, of course; it's any business -- and when you've been out in the business world for long enough, are responsible for bringing in large projects, and find out how much nicer it is to have a lot of help as compared to not having it, you'll start to understand why it's done that way.
 
Brandon,

I've worked documentary, reality, features, ILM SFX crew (3 features, two commercials including the First Union circus spots) and shows like Party of Five and Nash Bridges. I think you're really misinterpreting what you've witnessed as a casual observer on a professional set.

I won't say there is never any waste, but the sheer amount of work that is accomplished in shots, pages, seconds or any other measure is far beyond what you have interpreted it to be.

Professionals are compensated for their work during all phases of production. Professional craftspeople will not work out of pocket. Why should they - they have no residual interest in the project. Whether they love their work or not, it is a job.

When I worked on Bridges for CBS, we had one of the fastest, best looking single-camera shows in primetime. We did between 18 and 25 unique locations during each 10 day episode. We did process work on city streets from ShotMakers and executed stunts and pyro each and every week. That show had literally 100s of people working on it and a rough budget of $2.5M / ep.

We scrambled to get that show in the can each week and had it locked to air the following Friday night. That's about 20 days from script to deliverable. This simply couldn't have been accomplished with people "standing around" or without the necessary assets on the ground. CBS had zero tolerance for a delay in deliverables and that pressure was constant for the six or seven seasons we were on.

Anyway, I think you are a bit off the mark. You might find, as you develop your own show for broadcast, that adopting an attitude of flexibility toward the process of professional production will serve you well.

Not a dig, just the way it is in virtually 100% of television, commercial and music video production. At least the stuff that doesn't distribute principally through outlets like YouTube.

e
 
Brandon, I see you've never worked with a union crew.

"I think you're really misinterpreting what you've witnessed as a casual observer on a professional set."

I agree 100%.
 
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..i can see where your coming from brandon, as i also personally embrace that independent spirit which you seem to hold dear to. id much rather own my own small production company, than work for a well known one in hollywood.. and still managing to turn out something top notch in spite of smaller budgets is a really kick butt thought. but some time ago i realized that the more work that i do, the less and less i want to be paid less than what im worth. honestly, its hard sometimes when other independents ask what i want for a daily rate, and i give them a standard rate. .. they sort of do a double take and wonder why im asking for a seemingly large amount when they know i could do it for less. of course some people view it as some sort of betrayal to the independent spirit, but truth be told, they arent going to get anyone else around that can do it at the same level for less. so why should i spend more time away from freinds and family working just because im an independent at heart? nobody starts out as an independent hoping that they will alwys have small budgets and smaller paychecks. there comes a time when you have to cross that line and say .. i may be independent, but im a professional, and i deserve to be paid and respected as a professional. ..because nobody else is going to view you like that until you view yourslef like that..and of course have the talent, knowledge and skill to back it up. and of course your crew needs to be comprised of professionals as well. when working for someone else, you just have to stop thinking with your own wallet. .. and while i agreee that the crew COULD be whittled down in many circumsatnces, i also agree with Barry in asking "why would you want to?" .. if anything is going to make it easier for everyone on set to do thier job with less stress and more confidence then i want it. i just dont see any reason to make it harder for everyone when it doesnt have to be. this doesnt mean that i wouldnt want to get down and dirty when i had to, it just means im not going to swim acrossed a river drag myself through the mud when theres a bridge one step away.

so yeah, i can look at a nice video like this and say that it probably couldve been done cheaper, but my goal in life is not to make my projects cheaper.. its to make my projects better, and more importantly have a better life with less stress, less work, and more time to spend with family and freinds.. so i dont really care how much its costs someone else to accomplish that when they are very happily signing the paychecks as they reach thier own goals through me.
 
Brandon is no doubt a disciple of Robert Rodriguez's "El Mariachi" legend, and while I get a blast out of reading "Rebel Without a Crew", in the end the result of a one-man-band is still absolutely apparent on screen. As for you Brandon, I always admire the gumption of low-budget filmmakers and always enjoy seeing what one can pull off with minimal resources, which is why I spend a great deal of time viewing footage from this very forum, but there comes a time when you just need to concede that you may still have something to learn, rather than insisting that the pros have it all wrong. Face it- while many projects look good CONSIDERING that they were done with little resources, they won't stand up to the quality required by "CSI". That is why they hire the crew they need. As for the pay scale issue- I am willing to do favors for friends and shoot one pro-bono student project per year, but I'd be quite annoyed by requests to do a commercial project for an insulting wage. You may be able to pull favors from friends, but it's detrimental to all of us if you think that you should be able to make it the norm.
 
I worked on a major music video that the budget would of been in the $100,000 range. I saw some absolute unnessary equipment rentals and crew hiring. There were about 50 PA's and grip on set, it was an absolute mess, people crossing back and forth, three full truckloads full of lighting, when one scene was only lit with 2 kino's. Sometimes they do this to please the corporation to make it "show" that it's a big budget. The funniest thing all days was that they set up a video village for the execs to watch the feed through the camera while shooting. Mid- way through that scene i was like, how can the Director see what's going on when these are the two only monitors on set. The Director hadn't even realized he needed a monitor until after 2 hours. I dunno i think it works both ways, there's so much discussion here and i just butted in. But i think i remember people on this board saying in the past how they wanted to buy certain cameras just to impress clients because it was bigger than the DVX or HVX. That mentality i disagree with. Bottom line is budget aside, look at the work for the work. But i have to agree, sometimes i look at things then i find the budget out and say "where was the money spent"
 
Brandon Rice said:
That's not what we're talking about here... Explain.
Click to expand...

Quote from Brandon Rice:
HOPEFULLY as time goes on, people (companies included) will realize they don't have to spend 1/4 million dollars for a commercial, but instead spend less, hire less crew (same pay rate) and still get a bangin' product.
Click to expand...

Rephrased by BG:
Let's say your boss came to you and said "Brandon, we think you're so talented, we've decided to fire everyone else in your department, plus we're going to cut your pay from $20/hr to $8/hr. But we still expect you to turn in the same amount of work and the same quality of work."
Click to expand...

Same thing. Slash the budget, slash the employee roster, but expect to still get a "bangin' product." To me that's not something to hope for, that's something to dread. As a professional producer, I'd say the scenario would more likely be: let's hope that companies realize that if they want a bangin' product, they have to pay for the crew, the talent, and the expertise that it takes to produce such a product. And hopefully, this will allow those top-notch crewmembers, directors, producers, etc. to earn an even better living this year than they did last year.

In short: as a video producer you want your budget going UP, not DOWN. Don't know how to say that any more clearly.
 
yeah.. Brandon, basically if someone on the street walked up to you and said

"Hey, right now i will give you 1 million dollars to hire and direct a bunch of people at your disposal to get something done for me and you'll get to keep one hundred thousand for yourself

....or,

ill pay you ten thousand dollars to work your rear end off for a couple months doing it all yourself with a couple of your professional friends"

----------------

..and your saying..

"well, ..what your asking me to do might be possible to get done with just me and my freinds.. so that must be the best way to do it. the other way just seems wasteful"


-------

and the rest of the world is saying..

"..i cant believe you just did that"




..since when did the notion of everyone having thier cake and eating it too become out of style?
 
Do NOT underestimate the value of getting home to have dinner with your wife/family at a decent hour every night.

You aren't going to do that your way.
 
Hey... trust me, I want my budgets going up, not down... in fact, we're pitching a script that has a 4-6 mil. dollar budget in a few weeks... do I hope we get the budget? Heck yes! But guess what... others would make the same script for 24 mil. dollars... that's all I'm saying.
 
I would bet, then, that even if they didn't make a better product (which they probably would for 4-6 times the budget, with no disrespect intended to your work), they'd have a much happier crew when it was over.
 
I do not agree, because they'd be using old school methods, which just makes the budget balloon... look at Sin City. It had a 40million budget, and guess what, if it had been directed by someone else, it would have had a 80million budget.
 
Even though RR's film budget have gone up (since El Mariachi) his thinking has stayed the same... Fast, Cheap, but still professional and great. That's what I believe, and will continue to believe, even as my projects (hopefully) get bigger and have higher budgets.

Also, for the record... RR has happy crews.
 
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David Jimerson said:
I would bet, then, that even if they didn't make a better product (which they probably would for 4-6 times the budget, with no disrespect intended to your work), they'd have a much happier crew when it was over.
Click to expand...

And perhaps they'd have 18 million dollars more.

If it's really possible to deliver the same caliber work for less money, don't you think that the biggest, smartest, most successful people in the world would be doing it?

Or is it just that somehow, after over 100 years of producing the biggest, highest-budgeted, best productions in the world, they've all gotten stupid somewhere? Spending too much time on their private jets, going out on dates with Jennifer Aniston and Angelina Jolie, and spending too much time attending red-carpet premieres for their blockbuster films? Sorry, but if you ask who's got the right way figured out, er... the evidence seems to point to them, and not to the struggling indie guy working alone in his bedroom at night trying to do four people's jobs...
 
Money, money, money. we're all talkin' about money, money, money.

who cares who much something costs?

Did it come out RIGHT?

Is the client STOKED?

that's all that matters. nothing else. it's just money. you'll make more.

of course if you don't want to spend it, good on you. it's just a decision.

if anybody thinks i'm crazy I have a lot of experience doing very pricey videos (500,000k was tops) But that's just the way it was ten years ago. Nowadays, things can be done cheaper. But it wouldn't have been as fun...:laugh:

I'll have to admit, when I used to see 5 assistant producers on their cell phones all day, it pissed me off (this is from a band perspective mind you..) those days are long gone.....

Let's all get happy that we're doing this in any capacity- 1 million dollar budget or 50 bucks!

I watched this video and I thought it was good. I wasn't blown away, but I can respect what they had to go through and knowing that, it makes it even more impressive.

Peace!
 
If Brandon needs a hug after all this abuse, I can send Eddie "Molotov" Ramos over from the transportation department to console him. Oh, wait... Brandon fired him already.

J/K!!!

e
 
I'm going to peace-out of this discussion... this is as subjective as movies themselves... so keep doing what you're doing, and I'll keep doing what I'm doing, and if at the end of the day, we're both pushing out good product, that's all that matters! :)
 
Brandon, your lack of experience has you on the defensive and in the minority. You've never shot overseas nor have you shot on an episodic show where you need a larger crew to meet the strict shooting deadlines. You can't shoot CSI or Law and Order on a shoestring budget in your backyard.

And to quote RR's perspective shows a great deal of naivete on your part. Tim made a kickass video under ridiculous time constraints. He was gracious enough to share his workflow in getting it done. And to have you piss in his thread about this being a very simple video easy to pull off is ridiculous. I haven't seen your work match what Tim did in a short period of time.

Enough already, this is off topic from Tim's thread and it's spoiling what he accomplished.
 
I apologize for the OT discussion Tim, and yes, having found out more information, I agree as I said earlier, you did a great job.
 
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