MUSIC VIDEO EDITORS: Whats your workflow?

I

Imthedirector

Member
I am an aspiring music video director and have taken my time to do some studying but I am getting a little confused about the workflow.

what do you guys do? ie: Do you cut everything in premiere (evidently this is a question for premiere users not fcp)and then export it into after effects for color correcting and additional effects? How do you save out to go back into after effects? <--the reason I ask that is because when I save an after effects file to "save as" a premiere file it loses some effects. Do I need to precompose it to save effects to be able to be read by premiere?

Do you add transitions in premiere when you cut? because once again, if I add a transition in premiere it doesnt show up in after effects. OR do you just do transitions at the end when you bring it back into after effects?

Just basically, what is your workflow!! lol

I'm really just trying to pick the brain of some established video editors to see if I can find a good workflow and understand how its being done. By the way, I'm on CS4, PC, quad core.

Thanks!!
 
What i usually do is make a rough cut first before doing any color corrections/effects. I may use the fast color correction if the footage is bad.

Once everyone is happy, I'll improve it to get the "final cut". Render it out, and import into After Effects. Now i don't really use after effects very much and normally i will be working with my good AE expert but generally if you just need CC, use premiere fast color correcter to start with and then curves and Fast Color Correcter again and then a video limiter.
 
alright, not like his book is gospel BUT Stu's book dv rebel, page 246 in regards to onlining states" No mastering in the NLE" . Last line states: Trying to do any kind of effects or color work in your NLE is signing up for re compressing your precious images, which is such a no no thats its a rule unto itself."

thats why its confusing and I was wondering about experienced editors workflows. How they do it.

being that we're all pretty much independents , I know for me that I would be doing my own color work, editing, directing so I'm just studying but running into contradictions from different people and books, so I'm coming here to ask if anyone who does this kind of work (videos) has a workflow that could give me an aha moment and maybe help my editing workflow ..
 
I am not sure if your quote is 100% correct because I have not read the book. NLE is much better than linear editng for the simple fact that you do not have to skip a generation using a switcher to drop down from one beta tape (master) to the edit program (working reel).

Does he suggest using a TBC for CC and a switcher for effects?


Avid, FCP, Edius and Premiere can all do good CC and pull of some great effects while leaving the video looking very clean. Like I said I am not sure what the author is refering to.
 
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Any serious post production company will tell you the same as Stu Maschwitz, if you have AE, use it for any CC or effects, don't do it in your NLE then.
 
Hmmm, well, if you are using substitute files it can't hurt to run effects in the NLE, I think it really depends on what kind of output you are looking for.
 
Imthedirector said:
alright, not like his book is gospel BUT Stu's book dv rebel, page 246 in regards to onlining states" No mastering in the NLE" . Last line states: Trying to do any kind of effects or color work in your NLE is signing up for re compressing your precious images, which is such a no no thats its a rule unto itself."

thats why its confusing and I was wondering about experienced editors workflows. How they do it.

being that we're all pretty much independents , I know for me that I would be doing my own color work, editing, directing so I'm just studying but running into contradictions from different people and books, so I'm coming here to ask if anyone who does this kind of work (videos) has a workflow that could give me an aha moment and maybe help my editing workflow ..
Click to expand...

Stu's comments are more along the lines that many NLE's re-compress, or work in a different format than your raw source files.
Adding effects (then exporting to AE) will cause the NLE to first render them in the NLE (and compressed to the format that you are using) before output
This isn't so good if you are adding more effects afterwards.

I'm no professional but I use premiere pro and AE CS4 for my stuff - my workflow's pretty much the same regardless of what I do, and it's pretty close to what the book recommends too:

1: Lock the edit in Premiere pro - Once you're in AE, you shouldn't be going back to premiere. I save as an AE project and finish everything else in AE.
As far as adding in basic transitions/fades goes, I always add them in premiere so I can get timing and length correct, this doesn't hurt your AE project though (in CS4, the cross dissolve effect doesn't carry across to AE but it does overlap the clips in AE to match the timing of the dissolve - just add opacity keyframes to the uppermost clip and it's exactly the same. Fades to/from black add a solid layer above everything with opacity keyframes already dialled in)

2: Import the premiere pro project into after effects (in AE: File -> Import -> Adobe Premiere Pro Project) Don't drag the project into the project panel - you need to "import" it.

3: Open the composition up and add effects (deartifacting, visual effects etc)

4: Colour correct the footage ("fixing" lighting/removing colour casts/getting it all looking like it was shot with the same camera/under the same conditions etc)

5: Colour grade the footage (secondary colour correction then adding the desired "look")

6: Render it out in After Effects :)

Stu's book is geared more towards those of us with more time than money, but in truth you can do an adequate job by doing everything in Premiere if time is really tight. Many people won't notice - especially if it's a quick and dirty web video, but if you are serious about getting the most out of your footage, do your effects and grading in After effects (in 16 or 32bpc colour) - there's plenty of benefits to be had by taking the extra time too :)
 
masterp said:
stu's comments are more along the lines that many nle's re-compress, or work in a different format than your raw source files.
Adding effects (then exporting to ae) will cause the nle to first render them in the nle (and compressed to the format that you are using) before output
this isn't so good if you are adding more effects afterwards.

I'm no professional but i use premiere pro and ae cs4 for my stuff - my workflow's pretty much the same regardless of what i do, and it's pretty close to what the book recommends too:

1: lock the edit in premiere pro - once you're in ae, you shouldn't be going back to premiere. I save as an ae project and finish everything else in ae.
As far as adding in basic transitions/fades goes, i always add them in premiere so i can get timing and length correct, this doesn't hurt your ae project though (in cs4, the cross dissolve effect doesn't carry across to ae but it does overlap the clips in ae to match the timing of the dissolve - just add opacity keyframes to the uppermost clip and it's exactly the same. Fades to/from black add a solid layer above everything with opacity keyframes already dialled in)

2: import the premiere pro project into after effects (in ae: File -> import -> adobe premiere pro project) don't drag the project into the project panel - you need to "import" it.

3: open the composition up and add effects (deartifacting, visual effects etc)

4: colour correct the footage ("fixing" lighting/removing colour casts/getting it all looking like it was shot with the same camera/under the same conditions etc)

5: colour grade the footage (secondary colour correction then adding the desired "look")

6: render it out in after effects :)

stu's book is geared more towards those of us with more time than money, but in truth you can do an adequate job by doing everything in premiere if time is really tight. Many people won't notice - especially if it's a quick and dirty web video, but if you are serious about getting the most out of your footage, do your effects and grading in after effects (in 16 or 32bpc colour) - there's plenty of benefits to be had by taking the extra time too :)
Click to expand...
+1 :)
 
Master P thats exactly what I was looking for , thanks!!

Just one question.. you render in after effects? Is after effects renderer better than premieres? or its just a case that effects from AE dont translate well on the move over to premiere? would you use encore ? Its funny, the way you broke it down is the workflow I stumbled upon but then tried to take it back into premiere because I thought its renderer was better (don't know why, Just thought i read that somewhere) But I'm guessing the workflow you suggested will be the way I go in the future.

One other thing , when you say "Lock " the shots in premiere, is that just simply locking the individual tracks or doing something else..??

thanks again for the direction.
 
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If all your needs can be met using Premiere Pro then do so. Premiere Pro is a good NLE. After Effects just offer a little more when you need it. After Effects may not be needed for all your projects. It is that simple.
 
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