music video advice

twerp

twerp

Active member
I’ve recently started shooting music videos for local bands. I did two free videos for some good friends. The problem is, the video’s turned out really well and now I’m being approached by a lot of bands and a lot of record labels asking for our rates!

I REALLY don’t want to start throwing out a price that’s too high and having these people disappear, but I also don’t want to leave any money on the table.

I would appreciate SO much how you, the professionals go about pricing for music videos. Do you charge hourly? Does it depend on the band? Do you have a flat rate? How much of the total cost do you use for budget and how much is cash in your pocket?

It would be soooo greatly appreciated for any feedback or advice!

Thank you!

Kevin
 
You actually want to turn away some business. You'll make more money, have better clients, and have more time to spend on the projects that matter.

For SD shoots I charge a 1/2 day rate of $300-350, full day rate of $450. Add $100 for HD. That includes the camera. That's in the midwest, so you could make a lot more if you're somewhere else.

Whatever you do, don't sell yourself plus the camera for less than the camera rental in your city. That's unfair to you and to the people whose rates you undercut.
 
I to am in the same boat... Shot a music video that i thought was okay, now approaching other artists to do them and having problems with pricing.

There isnt a great deal of artists willing to pay much in my city, so i am probs selling myself well short, but still wanting to get experience and build my cv.
 
Day rate's can be tricky. Find out how much their budget is, how many days and what the hours are. Based on that you should be able to set a reasonable rate. Another way to do it is have someone act as your rep. I currently work with an agent and never discuss rates with a potential client. My agent does. He gets me more than I can and distances my association in the client's mind with the "business". Now my relationship with the client is about the business of making films. The other upside is my agent is good at chasing down invoices. When a DP calls about money, it creates an association in people's heads that you're in it just for the money.

If you don't have a rep, find a producer friend to do your negotiating. Producers know how it works and what's a competitive rate. Kick him 10-15 percent and he'll make sure you get paid.

I tend not to publicize my rate because one day you'll get people who can afford more than your rate but asking you do it for less because they saw your rate card. In some areas it's more standardized. I do alot of broadcast doc work and the rates from one cameraman to the next don't vary. But in the commercial / music video world there much more room to play with.
 
Evans said:
I to am in the same boat... Shot a music video that i thought was okay, now approaching other artists to do them and having problems with pricing.

There isnt a great deal of artists willing to pay much in my city, so i am probs selling myself well short, but still wanting to get experience and build my cv.
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Same here. I always start out high and work down. I find out the concept, locations, etc. and price from there. I never do anything for under a grand unless it's really simple. Sometimes it is a crap shoot because if you ask them what the budget is they may say it is lower than what is. I have had clients try to add locations or shots while on set after money has been paid. Be wary of that as well. I shot it, and held the edit until I paid in full.
 
twerp, as Professor said, if you land every gig, you are too cheap. :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)

When I get that "How much will this cost" question, I have no problem asking them what their budget is.
This way I can find a workflow to meet their budget instead of saying we can do a kick arse production only to find out they can't afford it.

We almost always work hourly and not to a budget. We come up with a formula to meet their budget and disclaim any additional shooting or editing is at $225.00 per hour.
This is with a 2-3 man crew shooting and a 2 man crew in post. 1 editing and 1 doing GFX, animation etc.

If they aren't prepared within an hour of our arrival, (for set-up that is on the clock), then they must pay for the time we go over. If they make several editing changes day after day, they pay extra.

It's a simple formula that forces them to be as prepared as they SAY they will be. It also helps them to take the editing process more seriously and minimize changes.
This also keeps it clear that you aren't responsible for their budget, they are and we are never the bad guy this way or have to work extra for free.

We can shoot a multiple cameras, big time production or a down and dirty 1 camera no editing production. This is why I explain they need to tell me how much they can afford and I'll (usually) find a way to get their video made.

Don't allow them to corner you into doing more than they can afford. Now, with that said, we usually give our clients far more than the minimum effort and almost 100% of our clients leave very happy. There's always those that whine no matter how much you give them, but I've learned how to avoid those clients.

If you are trying to gain experience on the job, taking on stuff for cheap is a great way to learn, but have a written guideline that protects you from giving your time away.
Doing too many cheap gigs devalue everyone’s efforts and force prices down. Don't cheapen your services (or mine) in fear of losing a gig or two.

Over the years I've learned what our services are worth and it is a BAD thing to sell yourself cheap.
I wish you all the best.
 
and make sure you get as much as possible up front. i always ask for half beforehand. it's easy to get burned!
 
My 2 cents.

Most music companies have sliding scales... companies being, promotional, PR etc.

You should have one to, if you want to work in the music business.

So... one scale for indi's and unsigned bands and one for majors.

In Nashville, where I am, an unsigned budget floats around $5000 on the low end 15,000 on the high end.

Low end for indi labels/majors usually is around 15-40K... music business people just want to promote their bands and if they are pros and good at what they do, they will not expect the moon little to no budget.

As a record label owner I would never hire anyone with a day/hourly rate on a music video...NEVER... It's too risky. I would give you a fair and adaquite budget to complete the job though. This holds true for web designers and graphic designers.

If your starting out, my advice is to build a body of work that will define your style and in turn, up your rate rather than take everything that comes along.


The above point about billing so that the band/record company doesn't change their minds over and over is a good one... I avoid this by being clear about what I'm going to deliver with storyboards and lots of communication.... as well as a simple policy of directors cut/marketing cut/band and mgmt cut.

Again, professionals are very fair... mid level weasels are not.

I've had two instances of label executives asking me how much more they needed to give me for extra work they wanted without me even bringing it up.
 
the best answer is to charge how much you think your work is worth, your situation is simalar to mine i did two of my friends music videos and then the clients started rushing in from nowhere, if you know your job is professional then charge prices in the thousands i understand that some of the clients are not going to be dealing with alot of money, but hey, professional results cost alot of money, the problem is that everubody wants things done for free it takes alot of hard work to make a nice music video, i would ask them what there budget is if it is something you think you can work with then do it but if it is to low then forget about it and remember when you set a price that is two low put your all into the project just as if they paid you 1 million dollars. i do all types of music videos for local bands industry people and the price always changes i usally charge no less then 2600 dollars for a music video some videos i do i charge 20 thousand depending on what the client wants and depeding on what your role is, if you are the director and not the camera person 2500 dollars would be good enough just to direct the scene but if you have to do evrything shoot, direct, edit then asking for 5000 dollars should not be a problem hope this helps
 
ProfessorU said:
That's in the midwest, so you could make a lot more if you're somewhere else.
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I would think that in bigger cities such as LA and NYC there would be more competition and thus lower costs for video production. Also, the overall quality level is higher, so you need to produce better material. Is this not the case?
 
I'm in the exact same situation I just hate dealing with good bands that I would love to make music videos for but most of the time they are unsigned and can't afford it, so it's hard to make the choice to say no, or say yes and do free work in hopes of it looking good in your portfolio or get you publicity. The first music video I did was for free and that's how I met like 3 more potential clients.
 
btangonan said:
I would think that in bigger cities such as LA and NYC there would be more competition and thus lower costs for video production. Also, the overall quality level is higher, so you need to produce better material. Is this not the case?
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It doesn't always cost more money to produce higher quality production. There is more competition, but all of the competition is higher. You need to consider the economy and pay scale that you work in.

Usually, higher living costs are proportionate to the pay scale. So yeah, you'll make more, but if you life in NY, it's gonna cost you a lot more to live than if you were in the mid west.

I live in Northern California. The living costs are low. I love going down to San Fran or LA. We make a hell of a lot more than when we're working local; and that's counting the cost of travel.

Sorry, this was kind of a rabbit trail.
 
In areas without established markets, you'll also pay more for rental on equipment, and just try to get an HPX500 in central Wisconsin without planning. Here there are lots of weekend amateurs that muddy the market and will shoot a day in HD for $100, which can make me seem overpriced, and that drives the prices down. I like to think that my clients would run if I charged that. Imagine them having to explain to their boss why they "saved" $500 on a videographer on a $5000+ shoot!
 
ProfessorU said:
In areas without established markets, you'll also pay more for rental on equipment, and just try to get an HPX500 in central Wisconsin without planning. Here there are lots of weekend amateurs that muddy the market and will shoot a day in HD for $100, which can make me seem overpriced, and that drives the prices down. I like to think that my clients would run if I charged that. Imagine them having to explain to their boss why they "saved" $500 on a videographer on a $5000+ shoot!
Click to expand...

So true Professor. We have the infmaous $300 commercial production crew around here. wam bam, thank you ma'am kind of style. When Are clients ask us about this, we just tell them that, "You get what you pay for. If you pay $300 for a commercial, it's going to look like a $300 dollar commercial. Now take a look at our portfolio..."

We never lower our prices.
 
This is a sales business. I get my hair cut at UltraCuts for $8. My wife pays $150 for her hair to get cut at Chateau Fru-Fru and it takes about the same amount of time.

You are charging NOT only for your costs on a music video but for your ideas and artistic creativity. Do sculptors charge the cost of clay? Does a painter charge just the cost of canvas? What if he painted it in 15 minutes? Is it worth less?

I am doing one or two videos a month and I can tell you the difference between a $10k video and a $30k video is marginal. Personally, I would not touch ANY video for less than $3500 and that is going to be a very simple idea with all natural light, etc.



ash =o)
 
I'm just starting out with videos. I've got a guy who I'm in talks for and, since he's a friend of a friend, I'm giving him the "friend" price of $300 a day for me and my camera. I'm still trying to see what kind of budget he has available to see how many other people I can bring in (the DP of my choice said $100-$200 per day with all his lighting equipment).

Try to remember though not to take well below what you're worth. I know you want the work and exposure but if you take too little, you'll find yourself absolutely miserable part way into the project and realize that it's just not worth what you're getting paid. That's an awful feeling.
 
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