Multiple Cameras for events

Hobbes00

Hobbes00

Well-known member
Hi guys, does anyone here knows where to point me to if I wanna learn how to set up these kinda system?
Basically.. 3-4Cameras, videomixer.. and screen via a projector LIVE.
I've never done it before but I think it wouldnt be really impossible, what are the minimum equipment I would need, the sort of cables..

Been reading up edirol's site, would like to to hear more frm you guys.

Cheers!
 
Run a search for "multicamera" and "video mixer" and you shoudl hit some good threads here on 'user abotu the topic.

Basically the golden rule is in effect: Good, Fast, Cheap; pick 2.
As it's Live you have allready chosen "Fast" so the descision between Good or Cheap is crititcal.

Live multicamera video can be done decently on a budget, but it will still cost you a noticable ammount of time, skills, and money, to set up a good working live production system.

One big hint to get you started: When working cheap (short of professional), use composite video fo your signals. It's cheap and very reliable, and that's what counts.
Get good basic gear that does the job and don't concentrate on all the "bells and whistles" A good basic video switcher will do much more for you than a crappy one with "6000 effects".

Also good communication in live prodcution is critical, don't skimp out on this.

- Mikko
 
I used to work A/V (audio visual) in Hawaii and Las Vegas. I've set up hundreds of live switches, more recently concerts for SEAL, SEAN PAUL and REO SPEEDWAGON.

I can offer some insight.

What kind of cameras are you using? I wouldn't use anything less than a professional rig like a D30. You'll need to run your cameras through a processor to stabilize the different camera signals, so when you switch between them, they won't "glitch".

You can use small Dv cams, but the lenses will limit your camera positions and their quality will look horrible projected...believe me.

Using Dv cameras will also leave you with the risk of being tagged an amatuer.

In my opinion, if you are thinking of doing live multi-camera set-ups, go pro, or don't do it at all.
 
Hi guys, thanks for all the replies!

mikko: thank for the advice mate. by going on the "cheap/lower budget" track.. what brand of VM would b recommend?

tMac: great links.... I'm gonna spend the night digesting them..

vegasgigitalfilms: hey, thanks for your advice.
I wanna try doing a 3 Camera shoot for smaller events. Lets say 3 XL2.
What are the essitental equipment that I will be needing?

Camera > Cables(what sort) > processor(what sort?) > VM > Projector

did i get the flow correct?

Anyways.. I'm not going to do this as a profession - not now at least.
I"m 20 and currently in the army, so this would be more like a hobby..

Season greetings
David, Singapore
 
Make sure you get some sort of COM system for the Crew, so you can tell them when they are going live, a couple preview monitors and a simple switcher and you will be set.
We have always set it up

Camera > Cables (BNC) > Monitor in > Monitor Out > Mixer > Master Preview/Master Record > Projectors
 
Ok, for a dead simple low budget system...

I'd recomend using a Pansonic AW-SW350 video mixer. It's got a 5-channel Frame Sync (that special processor) built in that syncs up all your cameras so that switches are clean. You also get full tally which is important for your camera operators. No special effects, but you won't need them. Basic titling is there, you can run effective basic live titles with a laptop with a video-out an MS Powerpoint.

Run Composite video using RG-59 coax cables from your cameras to the video mixer. It's cheap and effective cable that will do the job. Try to keep your runs as short as possible, but you don't have to be super frugle.

Bundle in regular speaker wire to get tally to your cameras (this will be a small electronics project), and a XLR cable to get Com to your camera operators.

For Com, get a Wired system like ClearCom's "Cue Com" or a basic Portacom system. Both are cost effective but good quality systems. Cheaping out on com will lead to confusion, and ultimatly disaster, during production. Both of teh above systems use cheap XLR mic cables.

Run the vide from the cameras into the Video mixer, then loop through to camera monitors. For a compact system, use a Quad splitter to put 4 camera inputs on one monitor, get a good quad splitter with full framerate update. Then add a "Preview" and a "Program" monitor to the outputs of your mixer. Run the feed to the projector from the other Program output, again as Composite. If it's a long way or there are multiple projectors to feed, you may need a Distribution/Signal amplifier.

If you want to record your mix, then put a deck eiher on the S-video program output of the video mixer, or between the mixer and the program monior (which will then also become your recording monitor, which is handy for a deck like the DSR-11 that has most of it's info on a OSD)

You can skip the Program monitor if your video mixer can see the screen well enoguh to use that. Youc an also skip the camera/input monitors if you wish to just use the Preview monitor to see one camera at a time before switching, this will work in more abstract, better planned, or slower production, when there isn't a seperate director in adition to the video mixer.


I've worked with NewTek's Video Toaster ("[VT]") systems on multiple occasions and have come to the conclusion that though they are very flexible, they try to do too much and arn't very reliable becuse of it. The system still has some notable restrictions, and it lisble to chrash at any time. I'd never trust one in a live production environment.
That beeing said, many people do use them without trouble too, but be sure to have a backup incase it goes down.

- Mikko
 
Talk about your expensive hobbies... ;)

I've had good luck doing I-MAG with cameras like the XL1S and DVX100. I'll certainly agree with vegasdigitalfilms about the lenses--you wouldn't believe the number of times I've wished for more zoom on the DVX :)--but I've never had any complaints on the quality when projected. (That said, different markets have different standards, and mine tends to be pretty forgiving compared to some.) I've seen it done with consumer-level 3-CCD DV cameras, and unfortunately I've even had to do it myself with old single-chip VHS rigs (I've done more I-MAG with the Panasonic AG-195 than I care to admit; that lens has less zoom than the DVX :D ), and it doesn't look too bad. (Again, your mileage with the client may vary.) Personally, I prefer the DVX to the XL series because of the built-in LCD, but the 16X zoom on the XL1 and 20X on the XL2 is tempting some days... You definitely need something other than the eyepiece-style viewfinder for this sort of job, and I never have figured out anything good for the XL1. Another thing you're definitely going to want is some sort of zoom control (and focus, for that matter, if you're one of the people who doesn't trust autofocus farther than you can throw it), either the ZR1000 for the Canon or something like the Varizoom 130 for a DVX.

The switcher I typically use for video-only gigs is the Panasonic WJ-MX50, which doesn't seem to be made any more; that Panasonic that Mikko mentioned looked like it would be a decent replacement. (I do a lot of shows that also have Powerpoint or other computer sources, where you need something like the Extron ISS-408 to switch and scale the video to XGA resolution). I've also seen the Videonics/Focus Enhancements MX-1 used, although I'm not sure I'd recommend it--it seems to give a little bit of a "computer-processed" look to the video.

So your simplest setup would be something like Cameras -> Switcher -> Projector, using composite-video cables all around, but MiniMan13 makes a good point about having a preview monitor for each camera so you can see what your cameraman's shot is like before you blindly switch to it. If Panasonic's still making the BTS-901Y, that's a good little 9" monitor (though not cheap--but then again none of this is :) ).

(Slighty off-topic, I once did a show where the client was using an Amiga-based Video Toaster as the live switcher (no cameras, but a couple of video sources) and also in place of a laptop running Powerpoint for slides. Talk about a bad idea--the time it took to load the "slides" was longer than it took the speaker to talk about them sometimes... :D )
 
The MX-50 has been replaced by the MX-70 by Panny. The SW350 is a different line of switcher (also from Panny) built as a very different style.

The MX series are video Mixers - they have a myrriad of special effects. They also all have basic audio mixing built in too. They however only have 2 channel TBCS/frame-syncs, resulting in some limitations for operation. That's not to say hat they arn't a good line of mixers. Even the basic MX-20 works rather well.

However the SW series are Switchers, they have very few effects (just a couple of wipes in addition to a dissolve). But they are designed for simple robust switching that works. The SW350 has a 5-channel FrameSync, meaning that you can switch on the bus (as you should be able to), in adition to regular 2-bus switching. - you can even use it as a 2-output cut's only switcher if you want and it'll work fine.

Both systems have their place - I can imagine IMag situations where the effects of a MX switcher could be usefull. I've done some VJ work (a relative of IMag) with a couple of MX-20's before. However for Cut'n dry regular mutlticam production I prefer the SW units for their broadcast switcher like operation.

I've never been a bgi fan of the Videonics/Focus Units either, theyr rubber buttons are annoyign enough, but combined with their horrible switching lag (half a seccond!) they just make for poor switchers for live production.


I oversee a production system that uses a SW350 as a switcher in the Studio, and a MX-50 in the Master Control Room. We will be ordering a MX-70 to replace the -50 tommorrow (end of year budget surplus's are nice). They all have their place

- Mikko
 
About the only thing I've ever done other than a standard dissolve with the MX50's is to use a partial wipe as a stand-in for a picture-in-picture mode, to add a small window in the corner of an image for a clock or sign-language interpreter. But the MX50 is what I have, so I use it. That SW350 looks like a solid little unit that would do the majority of what I've needed, definitely. One thing that's always annoyed me about the MX50 was the lack of an actual preview output, even on the output marked "Preview." The MX20 had it, but replaced the T-bar with a little slider that I just hated. I wasn't too sorry when we sold that and replaced it with a 50... :)

And I forgot about the switching lag on the MX-1, but you're right--it is pretty awful. One more reason not to use it.
 
Oh yeah, the "Preview" on the MX-50 is a joke. I'm glad they put a proper look-ahead (selectable mode actually) Preview system in the -70. Combined with proper Program/Preset busses it's nice.

Only reason we are replacing the -50 in MCR is becuase it is finally starting to show it's age. We allready have extra fans put into it to prevent meltdown!


Yeah, the fader on the MX-20 is a little annoying, but I've used worse (but we allready covered the Videonics units :) ), the MX-20 (and sister AVE55) are actually supprizingly workable units. Their only notable issues are the lack of Tally, only 2-channel TBC and A/B instead of PGM/PST busses.

- Mikko
 
My response won't be nearly as robust as these others, but for what its worth I'll echo a few of the points mentioned before. Com for your operators is a must. You have to be able to call the shots and moves, otherwise its all luck (and a gamble).

Don't skimp unless you absolutely have to. Pricing ranges from ghetto to insane, but just make sure you have a bright projector(s), solid switcher, and good cabling. Capable operators will also make a huge difference.

I'm getting ready to do a 12 camera live audience HD shoot in a week and that's pretty much an example of an "insane" price as I mentioned above. Grass Valley HD switcher in the main truck, secondary router cut feeding a custom line cut to the Barco Encore screen processor/switcher, that's feeding the Barco HD (18,000 lumen) projector to the house (which is windowed out to 10 different screens). The Encore is also being fed HD-res graphics off a powerbook, as well as 4 or so dvd source loops.

It's been a crazy mental game getting it all lined up and planned to say the least. But, it should be fun and i'll be glad when its over.
 
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