Mosaic problem on DVX100E (UK PAL)

D

dscvideo

New member
Experiencing artifacting on our Panasonic AG-DVX100E Camera

I wonder if any readers have experienced the same problems we are having with mosaic patterns or artifacting on playback of Panasonic PQ tapes (both 63 & 83 min) recorded on a Panasonic AG-DVX100E camera in the UK.

The camera is just over a year old, and is used as second camera mainly for wedding shoots. It has probably had less than 150hrs running time (although I don't know how to check this), always uses new tapes which we stripe on our Panasonic AG DV2700B Deck, and has periodically had the Panasonic cleaning tape run on it.

Generally we find the camera to be very good, and to provide excellent images comparable with our main camera, but occasionally we get this mosaic problem out of the blue (sometimes with the warning symbol for dirty cylinder head, but not always). It has probably only happened on half a dozen occasions out of 60 odd tapes, and usually we can get around it with other footage, but at our last wedding it occurred during several irreplaceable scenes of brides preparations and during some of the bride's arrival. So it is becoming more of a problem, since we cannot rely on getting some of the shots.

Since it only occurs on the occasional tape, I am wondering whether it is caused by a bad tape rather than the camera. I am in a quandry as to what to do. I cannot really afford to be without the camera in the busy wedding season, so don't really want to send it off for investigation, particularly as it should not be due a service for some time. I also wonder who would be able to investigate the problem anyway.

I have tried contacting Panasonic in the past on the subject of the compatability of their 83 min PQ tapes with this camera, but did not get any meaningful reply.

Can anyone advise, or has anyone already experienced and solved this problem?

Dave Collins
 
Re: Mosaic problem on DVX100E (UK PAL)

Two things
1. your heads are dirty, don't use the cleaning tape, bring it to a profeesional video production service in your area and have the heads clean. the cleaning tape just is not doing its job, plus it is an abrasive and will wear down the heads.
2. If you use the Panasonic PQ 83 min tapes, you are just asking for trouble. the manual states "only use 63 min tapes". For anything important I would always use the 63min tapes.
 
Re: Mosaic problem on DVX100E (UK PAL)

It happens on all cameras -- you're talking about a horizontal banding problem, right? As I understand it, it happens when there's a bit of stuff on the heads, which prevents new info from being recorded on that swath of tape momentarily. Better tape should make it happen less frequently, MQ's are the best tape (or perhaps the new Sony Digital Master series of DVCAM tape, which are like $12-$15 each).

This is the bane of the DV format, and has been since the original VX1000 hit the market. The solution you may need to look at would be an accessory firewire recorder like the Promax DirectDrive. This is a belt-pack-mounted firewire hard disk recorder, which would provide a redundant recording (but without any tape errors). It should give you 100% reliability, plus instant capture and 3-hour record times.

Of course, it's a $1,000 accessory.

For a camera-only solution, you do the best you can -- make sure the heads are clean, and use the best tape possible. Just be forewarned that it'll still happen occasionally... it's been happening since the dawn of DV. That doesn't make it acceptable, but it is a fact of DV life. It happens less often with DVCAM and DVCPRO because of their faster tape speed. LP mode will make it happen more often because of its slower tape speed.
 
Re: Mosaic problem on DVX100E (UK PAL)

But if it is an expected problem with the DV, why is it not being reported so often.....

may be I am not following all the threads....regularly
 
Re: Mosaic problem on DVX100E (UK PAL)

we have two vx1000 one from 97 and one from 98 and believe me they got their share of rough soots in snowy and sandy conditions and such. we ASWAYS use SONY tapes in SONY cams and so far these two old cams maybe had 10 dropouts between them. most people i know also do this and never have a problem while a friend of mine had errors on his XM2 after 2 hours. on the third tape....3rd brand also.

i would stick to 63PQ or MQ tapes ...
 
Re: Mosaic problem on DVX100E (UK PAL)

Hi, I am having the same problems. And what makes it even worse is that I am filming in costa rica right now... I got somebody in san jose to clean the heads but I am still having the same problem and it doesnt look like they know enough about this camera to help me out, the first tape is still working fine when I look back at it but all the footage I am shooting right now comes out messed up and I dont really know what to do. I am using dvm60 panasonic tapes.nobody in america can help me because it is a pall system (european). so what is there to do.. use different tapes, send my camera to panasonic to get it repaired.. the camera is not even a year old and I always take really good care of it.. I hope I can get some advice from you guys about what to do..
thnx, marieke
 
Re: Mosaic problem on DVX100E (UK PAL)

What is exactly the problem, marieke. Do you get discrete gray blocks blocks on the images, or horizontlal bands (6 for PAL)? Do you see those problems in the images staight from the cam (not recorded)?
 
Re: Mosaic problem on DVX100E (UK PAL)

Hi andre, the problem is not gray blocks but actually more of colored bloks and stripes, not all the time but at least every couple of seconds, I only see it when I playback what I have recorded, but is actually getting worse and the first tape still looks fine, you can hear it sometimes too when the tape is messed up you hear its messed up in the audio too.
Marieke
 
Re: Mosaic problem on DVX100E (UK PAL)

We have 20 of DVX100 and DWX100A PAL cameras in daily use. The dropouts are, like Barry writes, a problem that occures now and then. Even on relativly new cameras. I suspect the tapes to be part off the problem, the DV standart and the machinery the rest. A prof. cleaning cures most of the dropouts. My experience is that they occur more often on the DVX100 than on the Sony PD150 (since it can run DVcam).
 
Re: Mosaic problem on DVX100E (UK PAL)

So what is your advice, I got some new tapes send out here, but i wonder if that will actually solve the problem now that there is olready something wrong with the playheads. Is the best solution to send it off to panasonic to get it cleaned and or fixed. and does anyone now how long that might take..
thanks for any replies, Marieke
 
Re: Mosaic problem on DVX100E (UK PAL)

Marieke, if yr cam is relatively new (no weared out heads) there are only 2 possible issues left: the heads could be clogged (most probably), or the tape transport went wrong. What to do: first you should know that head and transport cleaning is not system (Pal) related problem. If you mixed tape brands just before you got these problems, you should try to find somebody who is familiar with the famous sticky ( and difficult to remove) contaminations occuring after tape brand mixups. A routine cleaning job will not do the job. Because yr original tapes can still playback without problems, (on that same cam, I suppose) the contamination could be not too strong (but still sticky!) and there is a good chance that the "bad" tapes still playback well on other DV players and can be saved.
 
I have the exact same problem... This mosaic pattern has happened to me at least three times that I can remember. It happened again last night while trying to playback a dance for a belly dancing group. Nothing worse than technical problems with an audience. Sometimes it is a mosaic pattern, sometimes blue horizontal lines, sometimes no playback at all. This isn't a recording dropout problem. The recorded video is perfect once the camera comes out of this funk. It's also not dirty heads.

Last night I discovered that if I fast forwarded the tape to the end and then rewind to the beginning everything was fine. Sure I've only done this once so it's not conclusive but I will try it again the next time it happens and let you know. Could it be that the tape is wound too tightly from the factory? Seems I read somewhere once that you should run your new tapes to the end and back before use... I don't pre-black anymore because of everything I have read about head wear... Oh, and so far as I can remember, this has only happened on new tapes ( I use Panasonic M63MQ's). But then I rarely use "used" tapes.

I'm sure this is happening to many people. Possibly on another thread?

Jack
 
I have had this problem before, and it turned out that my heads where dirty.
The dirty heads sign would come up once in a while, but after cleaning the heads, it just stopped coming up and the mozaic pattern disappeared.

It might be that your heads are also dirty. Try cleaning them up.

All the best

Fidel.
 
It's definitely dirty heads. We just came back from a shoot in the desert, and we had two days that were very windy. On those days we were PLAGUED with this problem. Had it happen maybe 20 times on one tape. Brand new MQ's, on a camera that rarely ever has the problem. Didn't have it at all on the non-windy days, but in the desert environment with the wind blowing, we had it over and over.

I HATE TAPE.

The solution for us was to run the head cleaner a couple of times. Then we'd get a good 10 minutes out of it before the problem started happening again.

I HATE TAPE. I cannot IMAGINE what it'd be like shooting HDV in that type of circumstance!

P2 cannot get here fast enough, as far as I'm concerned. We almost resorted to wrapping the camera in a plastic bag...
 
I wonder if we can talk about this a bit more, I posted a new topic, but now realise I'm having the same problem as you guys....I've just been using plain on JVC tapes here in England, and was wondering if I now changed to the better tapes would I need the heads cleaned in between, or can I now just change, and are these Sony Tapes mentioned before the best bet
 
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