More hi-def DVX clips

B

Barry_Green

Moderator
Okay, I finally got ahold of the rest of the JVC footage we shot side-by-side with the DVX, so I can post some more comparative clips. I'm not bothering with the standard-def versions because nobody seems to care, so here are the high-def versions:

http://66.78.26.9/~fiercely/DVXvsJVC/DVX-West-WalkUp.mpg
http://66.78.26.9/~fiercely/DVXvsJVC/JVC-West-WalkUp.mpg

http://66.78.26.9/~fiercely/DVXvsJVC/DVX-West-Gun.mpg
http://66.78.26.9/~fiercely/DVXvsJVC/JVC-West-Gun.mpg

http://66.78.26.9/~fiercely/DVXvsJVC/DVX-Matrix-720.mpg
http://66.78.26.9/~fiercely/DVXvsJVC/JVC-Matrix.mpg

http://66.78.26.9/~fiercely/DVXvsJVC/DVX-WestECU.mpg
http://66.78.26.9/~fiercely/DVXvsJVC/JVC-WestECU.mpg

For those tuning in late, these clips represent a side-by-side shootout between the JVC HD1 and the DVX100/anamorphic/24PA. None of the footage was touched in post in any way -- this is straight off the firewire. While the frames are not exactly identical between each shot, they're of substantially the same subject. Differences in framing are due to the fact that both cameras were rolling side-by-side (except for the 'matrix' clip).

The DVX was then up-rezzed to high-definition 1280 x 720 using S-Spline Pro, using the "photo" preset. That's the only post-processing that was done to any of these clips (and accounts for the "watermark" in the footage. The question is whether the JVC's higher resolution makes it a more compelling choice, or if the DVX's low-res footage could survive an up-rez to compete against the natively-higher-resolution JVC.

These are fairly large clips, 6 seconds or so each, so they'll take a while to download. They're 1280 x 720 x 24P (DVX) or 30P (JVC) MPG2 files, so to play them back at full speed you'll need a F A S T computer.
 
Re: More hi-def DVX clips

Hey Barry,
These look amazing...thanx.
I had problems viewing in Browser...so to view.

"Save Target as...."
 
Re: More hi-def DVX clips

very nice Barry.. Are you gonna buy S-Spline?
 
Re: More hi-def DVX clips

Thanks Barry. I love the DVX! These are killer examples of the aptitude of this camera. I too had to RIGHT CLICK and SAVE as in browser created some broken link issues.
 
Re: More hi-def DVX clips

can anyone post a link to get the proper codec to view these? i was using windows media player. if there's a better way, please let me know. thanks.
 
Re: More hi-def DVX clips

They're MPEG-2s. So to see them you need an MPEG-2 player with installed codec. MPEG-2 charges a license fee, so you can't get them free. Most DVD drives come with a software DVD player that installs the necessary codec.

So if you don't have a DVD drive, you most likely don't have the codec needed.
 
Re: More hi-def DVX clips

ok, i can see them on my trusty mac. VLC does the job well.

these clips look fantastic. i think the DVX has the edge. then again, i would be saying that in these forums, wouldn't I?
 
Re: More hi-def DVX clips

Y'know, it's been fascinating watching the response of people to these clips.

In the DVX forum the comments usually go something like "wow, the DVX just slays the JVC -- look at the color, and the detail holds up really well!" Over on the JVC forum, you hear "well, clearly the JVC wins this comparison! The color is much more natural, not supersaturated like the DVX."

I guess people are seeing what they're looking for.

From my perspective, the DVX/uprez combo makes images that are (resolution-wise) competitive with the JVC, but far superior in every other measurable way. The color is much, much more accurate on the DVX clips. Especially the old west clips, the guy was wearing blue jeans and the sky was blue -- those colors don't come through on the JVC at all.

The DVX is an absolute pleasure to use. The JVC is -- well, the opposite. I used to give the JVC the benefit of the doubt because it was SO HIGH RESOLUTION. But after extensive side-by-side testing, and with the discovery of S-Spline Pro, I think the DVX can match it in resolution, and it wins hands-down in every other possible comparison: frame rate, controllability, adjustability, overall video quality, latitude, audio quality, and on and on.

I sure wish there was an HDV DVX, but until then, if someone absolutely needs high-def, the DVX with S-Spline Pro can totally fill the bill. Long live the HDVX100! ;D
 
Re: More hi-def DVX clips

Beautiful footage. The talent is perfect for the part!

S-Spline Pro questions: this software can take AVIs and do uprezzing, or do you have to break it out into single frames and uprez each?

How long did it take to uprez these samples?

Would it make more sense to edit down a clip, then uprez it, or uprez raw footage first, then splice clips together in your NLE?

Can you show a sample which does a simple cross dissolve, so we can see what it looks like with S-Spline?

Thanks!
 
Re: More hi-def DVX clips

[quote author=Darryl Watson link=board=news;num=1071560094;start=0#9 date=12/20/03 at 14:27:43]
S-Spline Pro questions:  this software can take AVIs and do uprezzing, or do you have to break it out into single frames and uprez each?[/quote]

The company is working on a version for video files.  The current S-Spline Pro is designed for still images.  So what I've done is export the movie file as a series of Targa files, import them into a batch in S-Spline Pro, process them, and then go back in the NLE and import the up-rezzed files as a "still image sequence", which makes it an editable movie.

How long did it take to uprez these samples?
Click to expand...

It takes about 6 seconds per frame on my P4 2.66GHz.  There are faster computers out now, so if you have a current system it could be less time.  Also, the new video version of the program may be more efficient in handling video files, so stay tuned!

Would it make more sense to edit down a clip, then uprez it, or uprez raw footage first, then splice clips together in your NLE?
Click to expand...

Well, in lots of ways it doesn't really make much sense to up-rez at all(!) Until there's a viable means of HD distribution, it's really kind of theoretical, I guess. I mean, I was mainly doing it as an experiment to see how the DVX would compare to the JVC, a camera which I find hideous in most ways, but which is so high-resolution that it makes the DVX look out of focus (which is not the DVX's fault, we also put the JVC next to an HDW700 Digital BetaCam, and it made the 700 look out of focus too!)

But for extracting stills, it's a brilliant tool. For film-out, the labs do their own HD up-rezzing, but now we can do something on our own that doesn't look too shabby!

So I just wanted to find out if the JVC would always have that edge, or how close the DVX could come if necessary.  And I was VERY surprised and very very pleased with the results!

But getting back to your question: I'd probably do the full edit and then up-rez the finished file, rather than up-rezzing the source footage.

Can you show a sample which does a simple cross dissolve, so we can see what it looks like with S-Spline?
Click to expand...

Um, well, sure... hold on a minute...

http://66.78.26.9/~fiercely/DVXvsJVC/DVX-West-Dissolve.mpg

Also, check out the lack of watermarks!  I registered the software so now I can do these tests watermark-free!
 
Re: More hi-def DVX clips

Thanks for the quick response. That dissolve clip is good.

After thinking about it yesterday, I realised that this is a great tool to generate a finished format. And you're right, how could this type of resolution be projected, anyway?

Maybe it would be possible to use this as a method of creating hidef footage for HDTV broadcast. We've got a local station here in Denver that can and does do hidef programming, which might mean that I could start getting content to them... hmmm. Or, they might just laugh and tell me to run along. ::)

I'm just very excited to see what people are coming up with to enhance the usefulness of the DVX100.
 
Re: More hi-def DVX clips

I think the dvx-clips looked very much like film, never seen anything like it, and that the JVC look a lot more digital.
Have did you achieve that film look and motion on the DVX clips?
I'm very excited :)
 
Re: More hi-def DVX clips

Hey Anders,

Achieving the film look with this camera is easy: shoot like you would with a film camera, and the DVX delivers filmlike results.  It really is an amazing camera, a completely revolutionary product, and those who call it a "gimmick" are just totally missing the boat.

I'm very excited:)
Click to expand...
You should be excited -- it's really a phenomenal tool! :)

We shot film-style, lit film-style, and the DVX did the rest for us.  The shots will look even more filmlike soon, as I've just sent the footage off to a lab to get transferred up to 35mm.
 
Re: More hi-def DVX clips

Well, I'll go you one better -- the lab is going to make dupe prints available, so you can actually order the whole 2-minute reel on 35mm, then take it to your local theater and broadcast it and see for yourself, first-hand, what DVX/Anamorphic -> 35mm (and DVX/mini35 -> 35mm) will look like.

I don't know what the prints will cost, I assume it'll be a reasonably low cost, and especially for anyone interested in making a $27,000 film transfer, the cost of the print ($15? $50? I don't know) will be some really cheap insurance. Especially because I'll make the source footage available, so if there's anything you see in the film print you don't like, you could go back to the original DV and see what it looked like there, and make changes or whatever...
 
Re: More hi-def DVX clips

Well, it's not for me, I don't get a dime from it, I just know that there are a couple of labs (like DuArt) that can screen DVX/35mm footage, but -- what good does that do someone in Peoria? Or Columbus? Or Atlanta?

So I proposed to the lab that we do basically a film version of something like the ProMax DVX/PD150 DVD -- a free test that anyone can order. Problem is, film prints cost a lot more than stamping out a DVD, so I'm sure there will be a charge, but that's up to the lab to determine.

I just hope it looks as good as I expect, seeing as I'm 99.96% of the way towards locking up funding for my first DVX feature, and I want to know that if there was ever any reason to blow it up, I want to know how good it'll look. And if doing this test helps someone else while we're at it, that's all the better...
 
Re: More hi-def DVX clips

Wow,
It's amazing how much more "film-like" (hate to use the term) the DVX looks compared to the JVC. Obviously a much better contrast ratio on the DVX.
The JVC really looks like early Sony HD. Overly detailed and still more "video" like motion. Funny, the JVC footage seems like filmlook processed video, whereas the DVX just looks darn close to film or the bigger 24p/HD.
Hopefully 3 months till the new Sony HDV camera is announced...that's the comparison I'll be looking forward to!
FWIW

Brian Broz
 
Re: More hi-def DVX clips

SO Barry,
Do you think it would be realistic to do a DVX-HD uprez film?
Or are there to many issues.... :o
 
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