more fx1 frame grabs

Re: more fx1 frame grabs

Well, don't forget that Panasonic is propably going to first deliver an MPEG based HD palm camera. There is no info, whether it will be a 25 Mb/s or an 50 Mb/s solution, but as it says in the following quote from their press release, they say it is going to be "for the professional market". I hope that it means 50 Mb/s, because after all Sony says that HDV 25 Mb/s is a consumer format.
This press release suggests in my opinion:
2005: "MPEG HD" palm camera
2006: DVCPRO-HD palm camera

https://eww.pavc.panasonic.co.jp/pro-av/sales_o/news_info/ibc/093.html
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For broadcast production, he said, “Panasonic will expand the product line of DVCPRO and DVCPRO50 compatible P2 products. You will see us introducing even more cost effective camcorders and a palm style mini-camcorder for broadcast use. Panasonic will introduce the first DVCPRO HD compatible P2 products in 2006 under a clear and consistent migration path toward HD.”

While for professional production, Panasonic will exploit P2’s open architecture, and “we will introduce a MPEG-based HD resolution, palm-style mini-camcorder using P2, for the professional market in 2005.”
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Re: more fx1 frame grabs

[quote author=Barry_Green link=board=sony;num=1104635586;start=0#12 date=01/03/05 at 23:47:35]
So with Sony the camera's here, but the editing/post support isn't.  With Panasonic the format is here, and has been for years;
[/quote]
- Pinnacle LE6 and Canopus both claim HDV is editable (end to end) now. Indeed , I went to a demo of Canopus HDV ( from an FX1 ) last month - very impressive , even tho' I'm a pinnacle Liquid Edition 5.5 convert ! - ( Have I got that wrong ? - was I so dazzled by the footage that I missed asking the real questions ? ! - perhaps ! )
FCP-HD is here today, working today . With Panasonic the format is here, and has been for years; there just isn't a prosumer camera out yet to use it.
Click to expand...
- !  !  !  ! - so it's of no use to us poor guys !! Also I'd need a Mac. - more expense I can't afford ! -

. HOWEVER , you say it's gonna be LESS THAN THE FX1 ? ! ? ! ? ! -
       
                            W O W ! - I'll take two please ! :D 8)
 
Re: more fx1 frame grabs

after playing around a bit, I am gathering some data and I am building a working pattern. I understand many people find Cinemode 25 to have lower resolution, but to be perfectly honest, I personally can't notice with my naked eyes. Those people were working real scientific tests.
I prefer the convenience of working progressive, be it real or fake. Converting such a format between PAL and NTSC for perfect SD DVD is real easy.

As for downconverting, on Mac I haven't seen any software that does it as good as the camera itself, but my initial impression is that on PC, Canopus Procoder (version 1) does a better job and you will get a very sharp picture.
 
Re: more fx1 frame grabs

I too can't see the difference in the resolution drop of cineframe25 when looked at stills, or the one time I was able to look at it in an 1920X1080 HD computer monitor. Ofcourse it is there, as some resolution charts show it, but I'm not too worried about it. And since some mighty people here agreed that the motion looks the same as if it was progressive, I've shot all my material with cineframe25. I'm doing so for the comfort of editing material with "film motion".
The more I try colour correcting HDV 25 Mb/s material, it starts to look scarier. If panasonic is going to put up a better format, I'm getting it, but few years with HDR-FX1 doesn't feel that bad. It gives a good picture most of the time anyway.
 
Re: more fx1 frame grabs

What do you mean by scarier. Scarier like "wow that is so good it is scary", or scary like, "man there is so much posterization it is scary." ?
 
Re: more fx1 frame grabs

Scary like "there is so much posterization". With HDV it seems that you don't have that much possibilities in color correction. Ofcourse colors go into any direction, but when you try to get a dark shot to appear light and set gamma a little bit too much the posterization and mpeg stuff start to show. Ofcourse you can't tweak 8 bit DV much either, but on HDV you can do even less. I haven't tried it on a normal project, but I'd assume that normal color correction is bearable even with HDV.
But, it's not a format for post processing. I'll propably try to do as much as I can in camera, and just leave luminance and gamma correction to be just little tweaks. And ofcourse you can always go to darker blacks and that will hide things, but you can't lift the blacks.
Ok, I have to admit that I've used to doing color correction on 10bit Digibeta stuff, so my experience with DV correction is kind of limited. Although I've done couple projects on DV too, but they were usually more experimental.
 
Re: more fx1 frame grabs

in my opinion, an immense gain is made by getting the light and coloring right the moment you shoot. I also work on digiral photography projects, mostly with a Nikon D100 camera, always in Jpeg modes (RAW is too slow for real life situations, unless you are shooting a stack of apples). Well those images are certainly more easy to tweak than DV or HDV, but I can assure you I hate to make changes. Any color correction or levels change, I feel there are losses, and not even that subtle.
 
Re: more fx1 frame grabs

OK, not many consummers have 1080 TVs, infact there's very few available apart from projectors that cost as much as a good car. Most "HD" TVs are only good for 720.
However more and more consummers do have 16:9 SD sets so good 16:9 is pretty important. Now with the FX1/Z1 you can shoot HDV and downsample (NOT in the camera) to 4:2:2 SD, that's broadcast standard 16:9, a huge step up for anything at this cameras pricepoint. Sure you don't get the optics you get on a broadcast camera but you get an image way better than any DV25 camera can pull.
Also the FX1 gives you component out that you can use to bypass all the issues fo HDV. We've used the camera in SD mode via a component to SDI converter into a DigiBeta deck and the results are stunning, way better than anything you can record in DV25, no DV25 artifacts at all.
There's a few thing not so good about HDV, most of the flack the FX1/Z1 is copping is due to the recording format rather than the camera, apart from no progressive scan I don't see much that Sony could have done to build a better HDV camera, they've certainly learned a lot from the the DVX100, handling the FX1 I find it hard to believe it's a Sony camera!
The Z1 adds some pretty neat tricks as well, like in camera rack focus, you can setup more complex focus shifts than I think anyone would need and tie them to aperture shifts, in fact you can setup any camera parameter to transition at different rates and curves. I'd almost rate the thing as being too flexible.
I'm not saying these cameras will suit everyone, they're not for every situation or shooting style either but I think if nothing else Sony deserves credit for raising the bar. I can't see any camera manufacturer trying to sell either a HDV or DV camera at that pricepoint with less features. So love it or hate it, we're all going to benefit from it in the long run.
 
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