More AVCHD camcorders coming from Panasonic

AVC-HD was developed as a partnership between Panasonic and Sony. Since announcing it, every other manufacturer (except JVC) has jumped on board, so Canon, Sharp, Samsung, Sanyo, everybody.

AVC-HD is basically "the next generation" of HDV. It's 4:2:0 and long-GOP, like HDV, but then it's got several features that are significantly better: it's got a much more efficient codec, it can record full-raster 1920x1080, it has native support for 24p in both 1080 and 720, and it offers better audio: either 5.1 channels of Dolby Digital AC-3, or up to 7.1 channels of uncompressed PCM audio.

And, it's tapeless. So no dropouts, timecode breaks, or deck incompatibilities.

Seems like the ideal format for those who would otherwise settle for HDV. However, so far it's mostly promise; no AVC-HD camcorders have been delivered that come anywhere close to fulfilling what the format is capable of. There are several AVC-HD camcorders on the market but they're all stripped-down consumer models, and they only use limited bandwidth (like 13 megabits instead of the format's full potential of 24 megabits). 24 megabits of AVC-HD should be as good as 36 megabits of XDCAM-HD.

I have no doubt that AVC-HD is going to be "the new DV", but not yet. Not until they get some camera heads that do the format justice, and they get the bitrates up there to an adequate level. I mean, once we get a miniaturized HVX recording 24 megabit AVC-HD to a $19 off-the-shelf SD memory card, then we'll have something to really talk about. At 24 megabits, that'd be an hour on a cheap commodity 16GB SDHC card. And it's scalable compression, so you could get longer recording times if you wanted to crank down the bitrate; 13 megabits of AVC-HD should match 25 megabits of MPEG-2 but double your recording times.

But, again, the AVC-HD promise is largely unfulfilled. I think it's gonna be huge, but not until we get an AVC-HD HVX or AVC-HD XHA1 type of camera.
 
Barry_Green said:
But, again, the AVC-HD promise is largely unfulfilled. I think it's gonna be huge, but not until we get an AVC-HD HVX or AVC-HD XHA1 type of camera.
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I wonder if Sony's NAB announcement of their new XD-CAM EX will get Panasonic thinking about a late 2007 or early 2008 AVC-HD or maybe even AVC-Intra capable HVX upgrade?

With P2 prices continuing to drop, and if it could still maintain the current $5,200.00 to $6,000.00 price range it would definitely get my money over the XD-CAM EX.

And I also can't imagine Canon not continuing the XH-A1 into the AVC-HD era. It seems to be turning into a real popular cam.
 
It won't change their plans at all. Whatever they're coming up with in 2007 or 2008 has already been on the drawing boards for probably two years. Might influence future plans, but won't change what's already in the pipeline.

Let's put it this way: Sony saw the HVX announced in Feb. 2005, they started working on a copy, and they'll have it on the market Dec. 2007. That's about two years. If anything Sony did was going to spur a new Panasonic product, you can expect about a two-year lag or so before the new product shows up.

I've been nagging Panasonic to put AVC-HD on the HVX from day one. Not that I'd even use it; I'd much much much rather have a frame-discrete predictable-performance compression system, but hey -- options are always better, and I'd love to be able to quadruple the HD recording time while still getting largely acceptable results. And for cases where you need to hand off the footage, I think a cheap commodity SD card is about the best possible way to go. So I really, really hope they do it. A lot.

As for Canon, again you can bet that they already have a slate of products underway, but it'll probably take time to bring them to fruition. An AVC-HD XHA1 is a no-brainer, as is an AVC-HD HV20. I like my HV20 fine, but I can't help but look at the bloated right side of it and think -- that's all wasted space due to having to accomodate the tape. They could maybe cut the size of the camera in half if they just went AVC-HD with it...
 
Barry_Green said:
I have no doubt that AVC-HD is going to be "the new DV", but not yet. Not until they get some camera heads that do the format justice, and they get the bitrates up there to an adequate level. I mean, once we get a miniaturized HVX recording 24 megabit AVC-HD to a $19 off-the-shelf SD memory card, then we'll have something to really talk about. At 24 megabits, that'd be an hour on a cheap commodity 16GB SDHC card. And it's scalable compression, so you could get longer recording times if you wanted to crank down the bitrate; 13 megabits of AVC-HD should match 25 megabits of MPEG-2 but double your recording times.

But, again, the AVC-HD promise is largely unfulfilled. I think it's gonna be huge, but not until we get an AVC-HD HVX or AVC-HD XHA1 type of camera.
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Sounds great. Just what I want.

WHEN?

I don't mean to "shout", but everyone says technology moves so fast, and I find it way too slow. Just how long is it going to take before there's a AVCHD DVX or HVX? They announced the format about a year ago. It really seems like it'd be a simple matter to put this camera out. Do you think Panasonic will put it out in the next couple of months? This year? First part of 08? Last part of 08? Or right after I get tired of waiting and buy something else? :)

Any idea how hard it's going to be on computers to edit 24 megabit AVC-HD? All I hear is dire warnings. Any truth to this, or is this just FUD?

Sorry, if I'm growing impatient. I want this camera, and I'm beginning to wonder again if it'll ever come into being. Has Jan said anything new about this camera? Last she said was they weren't even working on it.
 
4:2:0 iS BULL, This is typical of them, inventing a format that wount do any justice at all. This is again the powers that be dictating what we can have and not what we need.
we need to vitoe this format, it sucks.
Barry how is that group buy on those man hood extension pills you were talking about.
I think iam gonna need them after reading this thread.
 
The "when" is anybody's guess. Nobody has announced a viable, prosumer/pro AVC-HD product yet. I am absolutely sure they're all working on it, but as to when it'll come out? Don't know. HDV was announced in a press release Sep 2003, and the first camera to bear the HDV logo (the FX1) came out about 14 months later. Now, it just so happens that the first cam with the HDV logo was also a 3-CCD prosumer model, not the tiny little palmcams that AVC-HD has been stuck with so far.

AVC-HD as a format was announced just about a year ago. My guess (and it's only a wild guess) is that we'll probably see something interesting towards the end of this year.
 
Barry_Green said:
As for Canon, again you can bet that they already have a slate of products underway, but it'll probably take time to bring them to fruition. An AVC-HD XHA1 is a no-brainer, as is an AVC-HD HV20. I like my HV20 fine, but I can't help but look at the bloated right side of it and think -- that's all wasted space due to having to accomodate the tape. They could maybe cut the size of the camera in half if they just went AVC-HD with it...
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You must not have read one of my earlier posts in this thread when I said that Canon will unveil an AVCHD camcorder this June.



Anyway, one of the reasons that you only see consumer AVCHD camcorders is because the technology to achieve 1920X1080 resolution wasn’t ready yet because it took up to much energy.

This article explains why the SD3 is much better than the SD1.
http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20070404/130166/

The fact that the SD3 is finally out in Japan indicates that Panasonic finally solved the problems that they had with the previous camcorders so I predict it wont be too long until they release much better AVCHD camcorders.
 
article and video of Panasonic's 1080i AG-HSC1U

article and video of Panasonic's 1080i AG-HSC1U

here is a link to the WEVA site about the Panasonic's Tiny & Tapeless 1080i AG-HSC1U:

http://www.weva.com

click on Industry News, then on the Panasonic article WEVA NEWS MINUTE: Panasonic's Tiny & Tapeless 1080i AG-HSC1U

in the article is a link to a video clip of it on display at NAB
 
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Thanks for understanding my impatience, Barry. Especially, since you addressed the way things are done by the companies, just before I unknowingly posted my last post.

Regarding the editing of AVCHD I found this from the following link.

"Corel Ulead Video Studio 11
Video Studio 11 joins Ulead’s DVD MovieFactory 6 to bring AVCHD support to the timeline. Corel’s latest version of Video Studio utilizes “PureHD” technology to import HD video from HDD and AVCHD camcorders for real time editing, and claims footage can be edited as easily as DV. Video Studio 11 Plus also includes InterVideo WinDVD 8 Silver, which is reportedly the first AVCHD certified playback software. This stands in contrast to the grievances various engineers have voiced in private, stating that AVCHD editing will prove to be difficult and time-consuming for all but the most robust computers."

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Real-Time-AVCHD-Editing-Is-Here.htm

If this is true...FANTASTIC.
 
Ok i have heard you will need a pretty powerfull system to edit AVC-HD, as if hdv was not powerhungry enough. Boys better get equiped for dual quad core.
 
By the time editing systems with AVC-HD support are actively shipping, graphics cards with realtime AVC decoding should be plentiful. Yes you need power, but it doesn't all have to be CPU. If your editor takes advantage of the graphics processor's realtime AVC decoding, there's no real reason AVC would be harder to edit than DV. And looking at the post right above yours, about Ulead Video Studio 11, it sounds like they're saying the same thing.
 
Thing that bugs me Is Barry, We are getting all these cool tools but quality aint goin up. The compression is going up, we still stuck on 4:2:0, in over 10 years.
Thats bad. I mean the HVX200 has adressed a few of those issues.
But one thing i will say is we have never had more choice than we have now.
Also will after effects use these hardware short cuts to increase speed?
 
I think the only thing that makes sense is for the DVX to have had a P2 drive and increase P2 sales as well as get rid of Mini-Dv as versatile and useful as it still is. But I dont see anything wrong with a DVX P2.
 
dvpixl said:
I think the only thing that makes sense is for the DVX to have had a P2 drive and increase P2 sales as well as get rid of Mini-Dv as versatile and useful as it still is. But I dont see anything wrong with a DVX P2.
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Without HD? I don't see panasonic doing an overhaul that big and not at least making it a 720p camera.
 
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