Monitoring DVC PRO HD in Avid

D

D_and_G

Well-known member
I've been getting conflicting info. on monitoring.

Scenario -

1. You shoot 1080p with the HVX (DVC PRO 100)
2. You transfer files from either P2 or Firestore/Cineporter/Firewire/USB Hd into Avid Express Pro HD.
3. You have to render the files to DNxHD to edit - ok, that's done.

Now, since the Mojo doesn't have a HD/SDI out and I don't feel comfortable monitoring or colour correcting with an SD downconvert, I was under the assumption that I could just feed the footage out back through the computer to the camera, then from the camera to a HDTV/HD CRT/HD monitor for monitoring and colour correcting.

Recently I've read that this would not be possible ?...That the camera can't be used as a HD deck? Tell me it ain't so
! Here's what I don't want to do - I don't want to have to purchase or rent a AJ1200A deck ($12,000 U.S) just to monitor my carefully shot (with meticulous precision) HD footage, or watch and cc to a SD downconvert.

Am I missing something here ? I know finishing on an DS Nitris would solve this, but that's looking increasingly unfeasible. FCP has the decklink solution, so is there a canopus card that works with the Avid doing the same thing ? Or is there a HD mojo on the horizon? The rub of it is, I thought that my solution would be to use the camera as a deck until the HD mojo came out, or budget for much longer post-pro sessions. The problem is, in my area even if you have the cash, the bigger productions book up blocks of time, making post-pro for indies extremely expensive, and non-linear...(anyone who has worked with cc specalists know they like to work straight through a project).

Sorry if this is a long post, but I thought my temporary solution was set, and now I don't know. If someone could clear this up for me, I would appreciate it.

If the only option is a SD downconvert then I may have no choice to reorganize budget allocation, and take money from the shoot for post-pro.:( And if there is anyone out there shooting 1080p or going to shoot 1080p, isn't it pointless to shoot 1080p if you can't colour ccorrect 1080p? Why bother with an HD post-monitor ?

Cheers.

I'm going to have a lager...Damn, this HD world is cluster-f***. :beer:
 
3. You have to render the files to DNxHD to edit - ok, that's done.
Click to expand...

No you don't. Avid will play back DVCPro HD footage in its native codec.

But you're right with the rest of your post. The only workflow that I'm aware of right now is using the Mojo down convert to SD. And you're right, it's not the greatest workflow.

An HD Mojo is just speculation and there's nothing that Avid has said to confirm or deny such a thing. At this point the HD workflow is a little incomplete in my opinion. I'm sure that Avid won't leave us hanging, but at the same time I don't know what the final solution will be or when it will come.
 
Krestofre, I believe I read some time back where MichaelP said that if you want to edit your 1080p footage, it has to be rendered to DnxHD...

Maybe MichaelP could confirm this ?



It looks right now with Avid, if you want to go with a film blowup, you are forced to do a SD edit, then everything else in the Nitris or Symphony. I really want to fine tune the footage , to the point where I can minimize time in those suites (especially since I hire cc specialists etc...)
A chap I know is doing everything in FCP, and exporting sequential TIFFs, for film out. His time in the final finishing suites is negligible (he can monitor/colour correct native 1080p footage before hand). Of course he could be BS'ing me :beer:

I will make a post in the HVX forum, just to double check about the cam as a deck. Maybe with the HVX, Avid will have to migrate some of their higher functions to X-Press pro ?

So Michael, I'll check back on the DNxHd question. Thanks for the help. :)

Cheers.



EDIT - Barry doesn't think the 100 stream will make it through the cams inputs and, through the output to monitor :(
Damn, that's a shame...If I have to spend $12,000 for a deck, I might as well go FCP, and buy a 2/3rd" chip cam. :beer:
 
I know that your effects will be rendered in DNxHD, but I'm pretty sure Xpress Pro can cut DVCPro HD footage natively. Anyway, Michael will set us straight. :)
 
You can edit native DVCPRO HD in Xpress Pro without going to DNxHD. Rendering to DNxHD first will give you more optimization in performance resulting in better real time preview steams.

Monitoring is an issue since there is no HD-SDI or HD component out from Mojo. The Mojo does a SD preview when editing at HD in Xpress Pro. A true SD down convert can only be done with a transcode first to a SD resolution then out as SD via Mojo.

Color correction can be done for the most part since Avid manages the 601/709 color space conversions - in the end it's all about monitor calibration. If viewing on a SD or HD or via DVI to another computer monitor.

If you want to export TIFF at the end of the process for a film out, then rendering to DNxHD for effects is fine as it won' suffer the same amount of decompress and recompress artifacts found with HD acquisition codecs (DVCPRO 100 and HDCAM).

If going back out to 720p/ HD PRO just keep everything native.

Michael
 
Thanks for clearing that up Michael. I must have misread something in the past. It's good to know I can shoot 1080p, and start editing without transcoding to DNxHD.

MichaelP said:
Color correction can be done for the most part since Avid manages the 601/709 color space conversions - in the end it's all about monitor calibration. If viewing on a SD or HD or via DVI to another computer monitor. Michael
Click to expand...

The quote above though is a little puzzling (for a low-tech guy like me :) ). I'm assuming you are referring to the fact that Avid does it's colour correcting in a bigger colour space right? But just to clarify, you are still talking about colour correcting a SD preview on a HD monitor, or colour correcting the native footage on a computer monitor. ?

Sorry if my questions are redundant. Thanks for the help :beer:

Cheers.
 
I have pretty much went through all my options.. and have landed in the AVID camp... Just ordered Studio so Hope things start well.

I am very very concerned about the previewing however. I have a blackmagic deckling HD card, and it looks like im pretty well SOL using that.

So Micheal, there are no real ways to monitor HD out of Xpress pro HD? Doesnt seem right to me.
 
Just so I understand correctly. The hvx or avid wont let me stream my live editing back to the camera via the firewire to have my live component HD output ?
 
Other than the SD preview via a Mojo, there is no output although Xpress Pro can output 720p/59.94 by adding the 2:3 frame insertion during play. You can take this out to a HD FireWire enable deck.
 
your right mocho.. im sure avid will make a HD mojo someday, but until then you gotta go get a 1200 HD deck. Dont worry, I saw a few on Ebay for $12,000 recently.
 
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