Monitor Question

jlames

Well-known member
As most of you know, we were on an unscheduled shoot yesterday a=nd Rush asked how it went in another post. I had to answer this in a new post so here goes.

OK so here's the deal. We were fighting two things last night; sound and luminance. Woe be me for abandoning my old, trustworthy Trinitron and abandoning the girl I brought to the dance but we used a new WEGA 32" LCD yesterday as the main monitor instead of our standard, trusty, box Trinitron. Three camera shoot as you know and all were balanced to the monitor. Now here's where it gets weird. When we balanced the cameras, they ball looked great but on the playback in studio last night, the tape in Cam 2 was dark by 75%! Now, for some specific reasons, we switched tapes from Cam 2 to Cam 3 and back to Cam 2 on the shoot and the tape goes from dark to good to dark again. Yes the irises were corrected on all cameras. Yes the viewfinder on Cam 2 looked good. Yes all three cams looked good on the monitor and yes, a test of the camera in-studio or should I say out side the bungalo after the discovery resulted in perfect images. There's NO REASON I can think of, especially I'm looking right at the monitor on set-up and shooting and what was supposed to be going to tape looked fine but didn't. Has ANYONE got an idea what happened. The only thing we can think of is that the monitor somehow has an automatic brightness changer thingie I like to say in my technical jargon that senses a dark signal from a source and automatically adjusts the picture to a pre-determined good level so we couldn't judge the actual picture from the cams component outs What are your thoughts people. My turn to say Help.

As to the sound issue, never use HSR if you want a quiet stage. It's right under the 5 Freeway so while I was in our motorcoach the evening before (no it's not a camper; it's a half million dollar luxury home on wheels with great soundproofing and insulation!), all I heard all night was commerce in all its thunderous finery up and down the busiest freeway in the nation all night long...trucks up and down the freeway at 75 all night. On stage we're in the middle of takes, IN THE MIDDLE OF TAKES!!! and some guys traipsing through clanging "C" stands. Then the fax goes off interrupting again so I ask him if there's anyway to be quiet and he tells me, no kidding, with a stagefull of witnesses, "Well that fax is worth $1200 to me" so I say, "Well what about me. I'm paying $650 a day for this place!" So far we've got about 3 hours into sound post to remove all the bleed ambient sound in th place. So some of you might say, "Why didn't you just wrap and do it somewhere else?" Remember, we were on an unscheduled emergency shoot. The network moved the due date back a full week on us to today which was the basis for Rush's post question that this answers. SO we're going to tally the cost of the sound posting up, stop payment on the credit card charge and send a check for the balance or a sorry Charlie note explaining the problem. Yes the attorney was called last night (he's family) and he noted "right of expectation" as grounds for the charge. We have a right\, when we rent something, to expect that it will work...just like a car for example or a tractor or a ditch witch or whatever from a rental yard. If it doesn't work, you take it back and they don't charge you for it. Anyway word to the wise: HSR in Burbank; great people, lousy soundstage!
 
Saint-J,

It looks like you guys ran in to a bit of bad luck.

That's weird about Cam 2's footage going dark on you.
For giggles, you might want to pull the manual on that monitor and look if there is some sort of auto compensatiion going on. If so, it's weird it didn't screw up the other cams.

How different were the settings for Cam 2 over the others?
I'm not sure how this would play into a difference in luminance.
Wouldn't the majority of this be based on exposure?
It seems very weird when you were monitoring it was OK, but playback was 75% darker.

As far as the audio goes, it sounds like the guys must work for IDX :).
Hopefully sounds won't creep into your dialog, which will make those passages virtually impossible to fix.

Steve
 
Now that made me smile! The cam setting were all similar being focused on the same set which didn't change. The cames were, for the most part, locked down as the actors weren't moving. The lighting was perfect and didn't change either because of no character movement so the cam setting differences were, at best, minimal. AND the two DPs I had together had 70 yerars of on-set experience; Mike Pellagatti OLN, History Channel, Discovery Channel, etc.) and Ken Pllotin, the list of shows he hasn't worked is shorter that ones he has after 40+ years iun the biz. If these guys didn't catch anything awry then I don't know who would. I hate mysteries so I have to figure this out. I'll be reviewing the manual today in a couple of hours when I leave for Videomaker Expo. It'll help pass the time while sitting in LA traffic.
 
It's not a Sound Stage

It's not a Sound Stage

JLames has complaint about the sound stage we offer. Thing is, the stage is not rented as a sound stage. It's a set stage. JLames accepted the stage under the General Rules and Regulations as posted. This quote is from the stage specification sheet directly. Allow me to quote: "A. Sound Recording on the Stage. 1. Stage is rented as an MOS (Mute out Sound) stage. The renter is free to record sound on the stage but must be aware that there may be some sounds generated or created either from the interior or exterior that may be heard on the stage. 2. During the weekday operations, Monday through Friday 9am - 6pm, the stage operation runs concurrent to the rental operations. This is required so that the rental rate for the stage is kept as low as possible, ususally 30% to 50% of comparable stages that are fully sound insulated. 3. Evenings and weekends are generally the most quiet. Be aware of this during the scheduling of the stage. Every effort is made to keep the stage as quite as possible, but is rented under the the conditions set forth above. 4. The renter accepts this element un-conditionally and without complaint or arguement. If the renter needs absolute quiet for their work, this stage may not be the best choice." Read the contract. If necessary, we can read it to you. You seemed happy when the bill arrived to you, and had no complaint at the time. You received full use of the facilities as well as free power!!! The contract is pretty straight-forward. I can assure you, if any attempt is made to change or alter the credit card amount or charge-back the card will be disputed.

(post edited after head cooling)
 
Last edited:
If that is what the contract states then you have a few solid points. However, with all do respect Misterjulius you are not defending your stage honorably towards the end of your post. You have resorted to personal attacks. I doubt anyone would rent from you after that post. This is not the place to tell a client that he will need a lawyer. Boy that really makes me want to do business with you.

Another thing - Noise or no noise policy if someone at your facility did say "This fax is worth $1200.00". I'd fire them. Oh unless it was you. You never talk to a client that way.
 
Misterjulius said:
you WILL need your lawyer. We ask that you do not return here as you made everyone uncomfortable and on-edge. That's not we are about. Next time rent the $3000 per day stage, I think you will be happier with it.

Wow,
I realize this is your first post, but I have a feeling you will regret this post.
 
No regrets

No regrets

Prehaps we are lucky. Our bookings are most excellent, indeed. Is it the price? Is it the fact that we provide all the lighting, grip, jibs and other equipment to the renter free (thus rendering the stage effectively free)(with some limitations)? We hope it's the people here that make the greatest difference. We have had several national commercial shoots here with sound and not one complaint. Generally we provide the sound pick-up devices (microphones, etc.) which have specific patterns that ward off extranious sounds. In this case the customer provided their own sound equipment. From my experience in pro-sound I could tell they were using a Sennheiser ew112 system with a MK-102 lavalier. A good mic, but about as wide a pattern as you can get. It comes down to appropriate equipment selection. We are always happy to consult and in may cases let the renter use the right equipment free of charge. Our goal over the past 11 years has not changed. We are here to make sure you get through your project successfully. If in doubt, ask.
 
Does that also include rendering my lawyer free too? It's amazing that you missed both Steve and I's point.

So you have an MOS stage with huge disclaimers in noise but offer microphones to your clients?

Then you post to the forums assasanating the character of one of the more helpful and respected persons of these forums and you want us to rush on out and book your stage? All while you are in complete ignorance or denial of the tone and anger in your previous post?

I'm sure since the rest of the world is using your stage to create award winning commercials you don't even need to bother posting here to protect your reputation because according to you - you don't need us (you're already booked solid).
 
Thanks, guys. Unfortunately there are people like this all over the world and sadly it appears most of them can be found in this business. Thankfully, going way, way back in this forum, I've not seen many of them last long especially here in the JVC area. It's a tight family. We'll just say that the $650 I spent for the "set up" stage was was money well-spent since it brought out true nature of the individual who runs or manages or owns Hollywood Studio Rental and allowed him to reveal his true nature. I've wasted more with worse results so, like others who have evidenced their true business and personal ethical side here, one most notably recent, let's just say having this individual's own words secure his place in the entertainment industry's list of people to do and not do business with was well worth the price of admission.

Anyway, on to sunnier things. It's pouring outside right now which gives us a chance to stay indoors, finish the editing and find out just what the heck went wrong with the monitor. Turns out 1) it wasn't the monitor at all, just Pilot Error, and 2) the old adage RTFM rings true once again. Had I done a little research, I'd have discovered that one of the things that makes the WEGA look so good is something called automatic Light Sensor that automatically adjusts the picture to reflect the viewing room's ambient light. Great for viewing; not so great for visualizing what the camera is seeing. Set this little gem to "Off" and, viola, perfect representation. It also has something that is called "CineForm" which somehow, "automatically detects film content and applies a reverse 3:2 pulldown process". Again, great for viewing; not so great for shooting. So the bottom line is the Sony WEGA is a great Flat Panel for wowing customers and viewing content IMO when its set up properly which I ignorantly failed to do. We're going to see how it looks against our old stand-bys, the CRT Trinitrons in-studio today because it really does make for fantastic viewing...as long as you take my fumble to heart and RTFM. Then we'll compare it to the Aquos which I saw at HDExpo yesterday which were incredible and we'll see which one wins. But for now, know that it was complete Pilot Error (Me) and not a great monitor that caused us lighting issues the other day. And thanks to the people who responded to this post when I needed help...yeah even that guy. It really was a bonus 2-lesson day; RTFM and always give people ample opportunity to show their true colors, they'll never disappoint you.
 
Oh it seems his original post was "EDITED". Thankfully, he can't edit Steves Quote.

I don't have time for people to cool off when I'm expecting a level of service and have thousands or dollars at stake on a production. Who wants to work with someone who might have a potential blow out and then need to cool off? I know my productions can't afford it.
 
Wow, I just went out to check the Sony WEGA, like I said I would, against the Aquos I bought this morning after seeing it last night (I figured even if I can't use it as a monitor in-studio, it'll be great in the family room to replace the 5 year old, still in great condition, Mitsubishi Diamond 1080 HD that was WAY ahead of it's time) and I find I'm getting slammed again. OK not me but my equipment this time.

OK, not that I want to spend alot of time on this but since this gentleman now finds dumping on me doesn't work and I guess he's decided to attack the equipment we use, let's be accurate. First, his own sound man, Matt McGowin, who pinch hit for our soundman who couldn't make it, was simply awesome as I have said before in my posts and to him that day and he's got a job with us whenever he wants it. From our two magic boxes of wired and wireless mics, Matt elected to go with two of the four brand new Countryman lavs we got from Robert and David over at John Coffee's Coffee Sound that really are great mics. He routed them each to our SD 302 mixer, another awesome device for 2-3 people and the little brother to the SD 442 we're about to pick up and from there they went right through three brand new JVC GY-100HDs with a fourth on backup that were loaded with three new top of the food chain Sony DV HD Video tapes.

I don't know...Matt could have selected either the A-T 4073As (not good for interior/great for exterior), one of the two matched Oktava MC 012s, yes the real Russian ones and not the Chinese ones that Guitar Center USED to sell 'till they found out they weren't Russian anymore. They're good mics for overhead but alone are subject to boompole shock and vibration (I almost said Shock and Awe!!!) until we added the Sabrasom shockmount, the ultra-screen and in-line low-cut filters but we had one sound guy, Matt, and no boom man so they were out. Or he could have gone with the single Schoeps 641 supercardioid that I just love but again, no boom man. So Matt elected to go with the Countrymans (Countyrmen???) IMO, a great solution given the environment. And I agreed with him and so did Ken Plotin and so did Mike Pellagatti. Between us there's about a hundred years of industry experience.

So, sir, please be accurate in your representations. And by the way, no slam on Sennheiser but I just don't use them. They're great mics with a great name and a great solution for alot of people for a lot of years but we just don't own any. So, I'm not certain who or what you were looking at but if it was a group of people running around in your whatever you call it with Sennheiser, it certainly wasn't us. We don't own any. Ask your soundman.

See you guys later... and thanks.
 
Hey jlames...regarding the WEGA. Check out the 23" or 26" Samsung HD monitor. The best we tested and we tested a ton. COmpnent, HDMI and VGA input so you can use it with deck and camera and as a full screen playback monitor by moving your FCP viewer over to it (if you're a Mac tudio).
Also, have you seen Markertek's new stand w/VESA mount?
Put the 23" Samsung on that with a Powerpack and you've got a great little video village.
 
Is this the Samsung LN-R238WA and the Samsung LN-R268W you are talking about? Please provide model numbers
 
I agree! What say you, jimagine???? I found both.

Also, while I'm here, did you know it's snowing outside right now...in Palmdale, California or rather Quartz Hill??? I just got home and it's beautiful but I guess I can say that when it only happens once in a blue moon; not like Stephen in Chicago, ehh Stephen. And there's no Lakshore Drive winds here!
 
direttore said:
Is this the Samsung LN-R238WA and the Samsung LN-R268W you are talking about? Please provide model numbers


It's the Samsung LN-R238W.
The best image and contrast including the Aquos IMO ,which is also a nice monitor.
 
jlames said:
I agree! What say you, jimagine???? I found both.

Also, while I'm here, did you know it's snowing outside right now...in Palmdale, California or rather Quartz Hill??? I just got home and it's beautiful but I guess I can say that when it only happens once in a blue moon; not like Stephen in Chicago, ehh Stephen. And there's no Lakshore Drive winds here!

When you live on a mountain top in Vermont that's pretty much the norm but definitely wild in Palmdale.
We spent yesterday at Lake Placid shooting World Cup Snowboarding with the HD100 for an upcoming film.
Brilliant blue skies and perfect conditions on the Olympic Mountain....even more snow than at the farm.
 
OK. Lemme see if I can get an image worthy of this board. It's almost dark outside here but hold on.
 
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