Moderation????

Paul Hudson

Paul Hudson

Vacuum Tube Member
What is hurting this whole site is it seems to be the most over moderated forum on the net. At least is is among all the professional forums I subscribe to.

Ease up boys even Reduser has less useless moderation than this site.
 
Cant agree with you there Paul. With all due respect many other just can a topic of issue and you're probably just never seeing it. Id say 90% of what moderators do is never seen anyway. I see that you placed the exact same post in a sales thread. Many, many people sell gear on this site - probably more than the others. In addition to that - Reduser only allows sale of RED gear, another friend of ours only allows ebay sales. We have some simple rules in the market place - adhere to them and no moderation need take place at all.
 
Paul Hudson said:
The most over moderated forum on the net!
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It's a question of fairness, Paul, as far as the Marketplace is concerned.

Every time someone posts a comment that should be sent by PM or e mail, it bumps a post to the detriment of other sellers.

Comments that ask general questions about an item that pertain to everyone are not touched. But when people carry on conversations of purely private matters or concerns, the mods will ask them to use PM or email.

You call that over moderation when those people are asked to communicate privately about purely private questions.

I consider it fairness and courtesy to other sellers.

Yours is the first critical comment I've seen in nearly two years.
 
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And a justification of one's position. These things tend to care for themselves on more professional sites. It is no secret as to why the "old" pros rarely or ever visit this anymore.
 
Actually, the things don't seem to "take care of themselves."

We have about six or seven pretty simple rules in the Marketplace.

None require much thought, and they are engineered to promote a consistent, fair procedure for posting and selling.

If anyone finds that objectionable, then by old means, stay away.

But as I've stated, we very rarely receive complaints, and most people feel the rules are fair, and are more than willing to cooperate.

I'm not justifying anything; I'm telling you what the members here report.
 
As far as marketplace is concerned, I've seen other forums apply a rule where you are allowed to bump your for sale post after a fixed period of days, say for example every 7 days until it is sold.

This allows people who feel like bumping their ad to do so, realistically no one is reading the 25th page, and the search on vbulletin forum software running all these forums are quite limited and usually that's on purpose to reduce bandwidth and server usage.

More categories within the Marketplace would help organize all the items for sale and make them easier to browse and find. I personally feel the DVXUSER marketplace could be much more effective, but it needs to change.

So my recommendation is to add CATEGORIES and implement a rule where ads can be bumped after so many days.

The solution is simple.
 
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starcentral said:
As far as marketplace is concerned, I've seen other forums apply a rule where you are allowed to bump your for sale post after a fixed period of days, say for example every 7 days until it is sold.

This allows people who feel like bumping their ad to do so, realistically no one is reading the 25th page, and the search on vbulletin forum software running all these forums are quite limited and usually that's on purpose to reduce bandwidth and server usage.

More categories within the Marketplace would help oranize all the items for sale and make them easier to browse and find. I personally feel the DVXUSER marketplace could be much more effective, but it needs to change.

So my recommendation is to add CATEGORIES and implement a rule where ads can be bumped after so many days.

The solution is simple.
Click to expand...



It would be a step in the right direction, for sure.
 
I have spent a career of 15+ years managing information for small to large business organizations, as well own & operate one of our nationals largest online auction websites for a niche market - so I know a thing or two about data organization and providing ease of use, browsing and searching to visitors for various products within a specific niche or industry area.

I would not suggest any brand specific categories at this time as that would result in far too many levels in the hierarchy for a forum based marketplace. It needs to be limited to 6-10 categories at the most. So instead I would start as simple as the following:



CAMERAS & EQUIP (all video/photo cameras)
CAMERA ACCESSORIES (matte box, rails, LCD monitors, EVF)
LENSES (lenses, lens filters)
SUPPORT (dolly, cranes, jibs, tripods, heads)
GRIP (stands, sandbags, booms, clamps)
LIGHTING (lights, gels, frames, fabrics)
SOUND (mics, hardware, recorders)
POST-PRODUCTION (hardware and software)
ALL-OTHER (misc. filmmaking related items: books, DVD's)


Obviously you can get very crazy with dedicated categories such as Tripods, Power, Media, etc.. but I don't recommend growing categories until you actually run for a while and see where the needs lie. It should be an evolutionary process since the information is organic and takes on a life of its own. No surprise to any of us there right?
 
Gary Huff said:
Do you have any information on what the average number of days is before a sales post is on page 3+? I would say that average length of time would be fine.
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The information is already there. There are 20-30 posts per day and only 20 posts can fit on the first page. If after 7 days people can bump, you will have 140 posts-worth trying to get to the home page. This will make the bumpers happy but cause a great deal of unfairness to any new items listed for that would regular appear on the first 1-2 pages.

The answer to this is use of categories as I indicated above.


David Saraceno said:
What would you guys suggest as a fair number of days to allow a bump?

Let me know.
Click to expand...

Bumping policy is a great idea, but won't work without creating categories to "dilute" the number of for sale items on the first couple pages.

DVX has a great visitor base compared go any other forum for filmnaking. I go look at other forums abd posts from weeks or months ago still lingre on the first or second page.

DVX has volume, so it will need categories for this to work. I would like to volunteer as a marketplace mod and can help with the setup and initial policing.
 
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First I think David and the Mods do a great job. Second, I have been here for six years and watched as the group has grown, sold several of my cameras and other gear on here and bought many many pieces of gear from other members. As the group has grown it has attracted more and more new people with little or no experience in the business, sometimes this is a good thing and sometimes it is a PIA but that's life. The first purpose of the group is and always has been to help each other out, inform others of new tech and techniques along with pass on what we have learned over the many years. It is not EBAY. I don't see the need for anyone to turn it into that and don't really care about having categories for stuff. Go to Craigslist, Kijiji, Ebay or one of those for that. It seems to me the spirit of this FREE service is to pass along what you are going to sell to like-minded people who you share ideas with on several other fronts and not just to sell your gear. When I am looking for something I use the search engine and find what I want or not. If not I post a WTB.
To my fellow Canadian in Toronto, since you are so experienced in all of the areas, perhaps you should negotiate with Landmine and do a "niche" system that serves the needs others here seem to feel deprived of... I think it works well and I don't mind all the rookies in the group, I think we were all there at one time or another and as we age we need to remember where we put that ounce of tolerance and patience.
My two cents.
 
I think that is probably too many categories for just the marketplace here, but I am down with discussing the idea of more categories. Though, we could do it with prefixes (i.e. FS Lenses:, FS Cameras, etc) which would also be sortable by using the "thread display options" at the bottom of a threadlist, and would not add a bunch of sub-forums. Thank you for the suggestion, though. I like your idea of categorization. Maybe you and I can discuss this further when I come back to it.

Also, the marketplace feedback system allows folks to post up in their profiles what they are looking to buy, or looking to sell, and that can help folks connect more easily without having to dive into a million mp threads. If you are in the "Forum" tab (which, if you are viewing this, you are) at the top of the page the sub-nav menu contains a dropdown link to "Marketplace Feedback". "Your options" allows you to fill in your own fields, and the other options should be self-explanatory.

Marketplace is a relatively frequent point of discussion for us mods. It is a fine line. It is something that is intended as a resource and service for the members. But, the flip side is that it has very clearly grown beyond that. So, there is a balancing act between trying to maintain it for the actual active members, or embracing the fact that it has become more commercial for a lot of the folks that use it, making a bit of money off of it, and letting it run more free, and things fall where they may.

Speaking openly, I do think that David does tend to have a more (for lack of better descriptor) heavy-handed approach. But, then again, it is not without my consent. And, I don't like being in an echo chamber. He really does do a great job in there, and he spends way more time on it than anyone doing it for free should spend. And, the marketplace was a section that needed a bit of heavier-handed love before he came along. It really sucks for everyone else when scams become increasingly prevalent in the marketplace. If that were to overrun the MP, I'd hate to have to just close it down entirely. Also sucks if it just becomes a depository for commercial listings. It also kind of ruins it if it just becomes a bump fest. If no one bumped without reason, there would be less need for it (though, I recognize structure and search-ability is somewhat prohibitive from the end-user side). Or, when there is no broader structure to listing formatting to make it easier to browse through threads, etc, etc, etc.

In recent weeks, I have been toying with the idea of making a separate sub-forum for ebay only listings. Let folks post their ebay links all they want, and with less stringent rules. Then leaving the non-ebay listings in the current marketplace. I just thought it might help return the marketplace to a bit of member-to-member use, but still allow folks to post to ebay (which tends to include the more commercial users of the MP), and do so in a space that is more accommodating to that.

I'm 100% open to suggestions for improving the marketplace. But some of the comments in this thread, Paul, just seem more like jabs than anything else. I didn't actually see any suggestions for improvement from you so much as I did a public expression of frustration that might have best been handled privately.

But, again... if you have any actual suggestions for improvement to the marketplace from your perspective, please feel free to post them up. Anyone else, please feel free as well. We may not respond to every single suggestion, but I will definitely read and consider them all. You can all, also feel free to contact me directly (using the "contact us" link at the bottom right of any page) if you prefer to have an offline discussion about improving the marketplace.
 
Gary Huff said:
I like the separate section for eBay idea.
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A separate section for ebay is definitely a good idea for sure, or simply implement that policy that external listings are not allowed.

BrianMurphy said:
First I think David and the Mods do a great job. Second, I have been here for six years and watched as the group has grown, sold several of my cameras and other gear on here and bought many many pieces of gear from other members. As the group has grown it has attracted more and more new people with little or no experience in the business, sometimes this is a good thing and sometimes it is a PIA but that's life. The first purpose of the group is and always has been to help each other out, inform others of new tech and techniques along with pass on what we have learned over the many years. It is not EBAY. I don't see the need for anyone to turn it into that and don't really care about having categories for stuff. Go to Craigslist, Kijiji, Ebay or one of those for that. It seems to me the spirit of this FREE service is to pass along what you are going to sell to like-minded people who you share ideas with on several other fronts and not just to sell your gear. When I am looking for something I use the search engine and find what I want or not. If not I post a WTB.
To my fellow Canadian in Toronto, since you are so experienced in all of the areas, perhaps you should negotiate with Landmine and do a "niche" system that serves the needs others here seem to feel deprived of... I think it works well and I don't mind all the rookies in the group, I think we were all there at one time or another and as we age we need to remember where we put that ounce of tolerance and patience.
My two cents.
Click to expand...

"Great so let's just keep everything the same, since it's already working" - that's exactly the mentality that keeps business, organizations, free or profiting ones from evolving with the times or being innovative. I spent a long career changing the minds of executives simply because they couldn't change their own minds themselves. You can see why I got out of it and decided to pursue my passion. Working to change the minds of others is frustrating.

I bring forward a great idea based on industry experience, trial and error, almost 1/2 a lifetime of achievement, but according to you, we should not adapt, since we have other "alternatives" out there like kijiji, ebay, etc.. The whole point it taking DVX to the next level and building the community further here and attracting more visitors, more sponsors, more success.

Sorry if that doesn't jive with you, but I couldn't disagree with you more.
 
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Jason Ramsey said:
I think that is probably too many categories for just the marketplace here, but I am down with discussing the idea of more categories. Though, we could do it with prefixes (i.e. FS Lenses:, FS Cameras, etc) which would also be sortable by using the "thread display options" at the bottom of a threadlist, and would not add a bunch of sub-forums. Thank you for the suggestion, though. I like your idea of categorization. Maybe you and I can discuss this further when I come back to it.

Also, the marketplace feedback system allows folks to post up in their profiles what they are looking to buy, or looking to sell, and that can help folks connect more easily without having to dive into a million mp threads. If you are in the "Forum" tab (which, if you are viewing this, you are) at the top of the page the sub-nav menu contains a dropdown link to "Marketplace Feedback". "Your options" allows you to fill in your own fields, and the other options should be self-explanatory.

Marketplace is a relatively frequent point of discussion for us mods. It is a fine line. It is something that is intended as a resource and service for the members. But, the flip side is that it has very clearly grown beyond that. So, there is a balancing act between trying to maintain it for the actual active members, or embracing the fact that it has become more commercial for a lot of the folks that use it, making a bit of money off of it, and letting it run more free, and things fall where they may.

Speaking openly, I do think that David does tend to have a more (for lack of better descriptor) heavy-handed approach. But, then again, it is not without my consent. And, I don't like being in an echo chamber. He really does do a great job in there, and he spends way more time on it than anyone doing it for free should spend. And, the marketplace was a section that needed a bit of heavier-handed love before he came along. It really sucks for everyone else when scams become increasingly prevalent in the marketplace. If that were to overrun the MP, I'd hate to have to just close it down entirely. Also sucks if it just becomes a depository for commercial listings. It also kind of ruins it if it just becomes a bump fest. If no one bumped without reason, there would be less need for it (though, I recognize structure and search-ability is somewhat prohibitive from the end-user side). Or, when there is no broader structure to listing formatting to make it easier to browse through threads, etc, etc, etc.

In recent weeks, I have been toying with the idea of making a separate sub-forum for ebay only listings. Let folks post their ebay links all they want, and with less stringent rules. Then leaving the non-ebay listings in the current marketplace. I just thought it might help return the marketplace to a bit of member-to-member use, but still allow folks to post to ebay (which tends to include the more commercial users of the MP), and do so in a space that is more accommodating to that.

I'm 100% open to suggestions for improving the marketplace. But some of the comments in this thread, Paul, just seem more like jabs than anything else. I didn't actually see any suggestions for improvement from you so much as I did a public expression of frustration that might have best been handled privately.

But, again... if you have any actual suggestions for improvement to the marketplace from your perspective, please feel free to post them up. Anyone else, please feel free as well. We may not respond to every single suggestion, but I will definitely read and consider them all. You can all, also feel free to email me directly at jason at landmine dot tv if you prefer to have a discussion offline about improving the marketplace.
Click to expand...

Use of prefixes will not go far to dilute the content on the first 1-2 pages without requiring user selection, next thing you know you will end up with 30+ prefixes which is nightmare to manage, and for users to look through or post in.

When you organize data you start at the lowest level of granularity and build from there. Go to BHPHOTOVIDEO.com and see how a very good example of how information is organized.

Categories as I've suggested is the ONLY way to go here. It's been implemented on other high traffic marketplace forums (different industry I'm talking about) and it WORKS.


CAMERAS & EQUIP (all video/photo cameras)
CAMERA ACCESSORIES (matte box, rails, LCD monitors, EVF)
LENSES (lenses, lens filters)
SUPPORT (dolly, cranes, jibs, tripods, heads)
GRIP (stands, sandbags, booms, clamps)
LIGHTING (lights, gels, frames, fabrics)
SOUND (mics, hardware, recorders)
POST-PRODUCTION (hardware and software)
ALL-OTHER (misc. filmmaking related items: books, DVD's)
 
starcentral said:
A separate section for ebay is definitely a good idea for sure, or simply implement that policy that external listings are not allowed.



"Great so let's just keep everything the same, since it's already working" - that's exactly the mentality that keeps business, organizations, free or profiting ones from evolving with the times. I spent a long career changing the minds of executives which is a joke of a job - because they simply couldn't try to change their own mind themselves.


I bring forward a great idea based on industry experience, trial and error, almost 1/2 a lifetime of achievement, but according to you, we should not adapt, since we have other "alternatives" out there like kijiji, ebay, etc.. The whole point it taking DVX to the next level and building the community further here and attracting more visitors, more sponsors, more success.

Sorry if that doesn't jive with you, but I couldn't disagree with you more.
Click to expand...

I find your need to blow your own horn annoying, your quotes are your quotes not mine and your lecture is rhetoric and unnecessary. You expressed your idea, I expressed my opinion. Seems you can't take criticism and again I don't really care about what you spent the last half of your life doing since it is not relevant in this discussion. This was a comment from Paul, questioning the amount of moderation on the site, then it worked its way to what would appear to be the core ....the Marketplace.
My last comment .
 
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