Mobile phone horror

RieniO

RieniO

Well-known member
When using XLR mikes with long cables, they pick up the radio signals that mobile phones produce from time to time. So each time when working with a group of people I tell everybody to turn of their mobile phones. Even though explained very well some still think they only need to put them on silent mode so every time I come home with footage that has at least a few minutes of this mobile phone distortion in the audio. My question is how other professional producers deal with this. Is there some kind of device that can check for you if there are any mobile phones active within a certain distance, and what do you do if you catch the person who left his/her mobile phone on, do you make him cover for the damage, for example the costs for the extra post production (audio correction)?

I am using a headphone to check my audio from time to time but I don't want to walk around with the headphone on my head all the time and also the XLR mikes are going to a cam mounted on a tripod and I'm operating a handheld cam which I like to keep cable free.

I'm very interested in your experiences/opinions and whether this mobile phone thing is a problem in the movie production scene in general or am I the only one suffering from this problem? Especially female glamour models seem to be unable to breath when their mobile phone isn't working and it's that kind of people I work with a lot but some make-up artists tend to show the same behavior. They just don't seem to understand the damage they can do to a shoot.

Rieni
 
When your rolling its vital to have your headphone's on. If they were on you would have clocked it at the time and fixed it.

It is your own fault for not monitoring.
 
Actually with a quality XLR cable that is terminated properly the cell phone noise is more likely being picked up by the microphone where a high gain preamp exists within the mic. (condenser of course)

X2 on monitoring the recorded signal is critical.
 
And this seems to happen more frequently with Iphones and Smart Phones.

Plus 3 on the monitoring. You wouldn't not monitor the video, right? Same principle.
 
Doc Bernard said:
And this seems to happen more frequently with Iphones and Smart Phones.

Plus 3 on the monitoring. You wouldn't not monitor the video, right? Same principle.
Click to expand...

The cell phone chatter is a 'feature' of GSM signalling. Well shielded lines can mitigate but if the cell phone is 'next to the audio cable to pick up'... well, don't do that... CDMA does not have this particular attribute... but because Qualcomm wanted to squeeze every penny, to reduced copper content (virtually none...) out of their 'intellectual property', the world took the cheaper and noisier GSM route.

One should check one's cell phone in somewhere 'safe' on a set... unless one is making a zillion dollars as an actor, and part of the contract includes 'can carry cell phone on set'...

Alternatively, put a box on the set, say there's a stick of dynamite and a blasting cap, and it will go off if a cell phone chirps... but that would probably lead to charges, even if no dynamite or caps were found...

As for iPhones. I use to hear the chatter on the Wife's first generation iPhone. Haven't heard much of it on the 3GS's we have... in her case, the GSM prohibits her use of the phone as a voice device, as the GSM interferes with her hearing aid. However she has a special 'text only/internet' fee option for the hard of hearing/deaf community...
 
I ask that all cell phones be turned off, not silent before we begin shooting and remind cast and crew everytime we return from a break. If I still hear martian fax machines, I turn and let the director or AD know that I'm getting hits. It's up to them. They usually start yelling "Turn off your DAMN CELL PHONES!"
 
You should hear it in a quiet studio room with monitors up. ckckckckckck.... ckckckckkckc.... It is extremely frustrating but all you can really do is tell people to shut off their phones.
 
Yep, what gpforet said. As my sig says: "Recording audio without monitoring on good occluding headphones is exactly like framing and focusing without a viewfinder. I can't think of ANY excuse for not hearing this until you get home with the footage. Either you're serious about recording audio or else don't bother and shoot MOS.

The story (perhaps apocryphal, perhaps not?) is that one producer came to the set with hammer and nails. Anyone caught with a powered cellphone (or any other similar transmitting/receiving personal gadget) would have it confiscated and nailed to the nearest door frame or fence post. I can't say that I don't envy that kind of control.
 
As much as I love my iPhone, I pickup "pings" in my edit suite all the time despite good cables and some distance.

Grant
 
on the gigs I did, I wouldn't roll sound unless all cell phones were off. Fortunately, I worked with people that actually cared about getting good sound and complied. I was on a MOCAP stage once, and heard the infamous interference, and saw one of the mocap operators quickly take his phone out of his pocket and send a text, and got the interference again. He must have just put his phone on vibrate. Right after we cut, I yelled "SO AND SO RUINED THE TAKE BECAUSE HE DIDN'T TURN OFF HIS CELL PHONE. WE HAVE TO GO AGAIN". The game director took the dude's phone and locked it in his car for the rest of the day.
 
The "your own fault" comments sound a bit like "the girl asked to get harrased because she was wearing a short skirt". If I'm hiring people and paying them and clearly instruct them to turn of their phones and they don't do it, then those people are the problem and not me. I already explained why I can't use a headphone all time time and usually once the audio works fine it will continue working fine for the rest of the shoot and I don't want to hire someone extra just for holding the mikes and monitoring audio, I have a budget to respect. What I could do is setup a backup audio recording setup (using a standalone audio recorder with XLR mikes attached to it) but that won't still rule out the mobile phone problem. So I'll go for the other suggestions like nailing mobile phones to doors etc but what I still would like to know if there is some kind of device which checks if there are any mobile phones around and turned on. I would also think that maybe the best way to check is putting on that damn headphone and ask my partner to phone all the mobile phones one by one from his own mobile phone and then when I hear the signal I know someone is bullshitting us and needs to be sent home without payment (and maybe a crushed iPhone) once the shoot is completed.

By the way, when I'm editing the footage in FCP on my MacBookPro using my headphone, I often pick up the audio from the TV channel my neigbors are watching. This gets picked up by the headphone cable. I don't know what my neigbors are using, maybe they have some inhouse transmitter system to send the signal from their satellite receive to their bedroom, or something like that.
 
RieniO said:
...what I still would like to know if there is some kind of device which checks if there are any mobile phones around and turned on.
Click to expand...

Don't know anything more than a google search on your key words... I would think this is a legal device. A 'scanner' that can decode 'cell phone conversations', 'identify cell phones based on information traded during calls or recalibration activities', or 'intercept cell phone connections' probably is not legal in the US... don't know about 'elsewhere'...

I think this device may just sense 'energy' in cell phone frequency bands.

http://sbsurvco.com/MD-40MOBILEPHONEDETECTOR.html
 
RieniO said:
The "your own fault" comments sound a bit like "the girl asked to get harrased because she was wearing a short skirt". If I'm hiring people and paying them and clearly instruct them to turn of their phones and they don't do it, then those people are the problem and not me. I already explained why I can't use a headphone all time time and usually once the audio works fine it will continue working fine for the rest of the shoot and I don't want to hire someone extra just for holding the mikes and monitoring audio,
Click to expand...
Really?

Let me see if I am understanding this right....

1. You do pay people on your sets, but audio (the other half of the sensory experience in film-making) is not one of those positions, meaning: it's not important to you.
2. Monitoring the audio (reiteration: the other half of the sensory experience in film-making), just like you would the visuals, is not a concern.
3. Because of that, if there is an audio problem on set, its someone else's fault for causing it, but you are faultless in not monitoring it and catching it right away. (solved by fixing point 1)
4. Audio is unchanging once you have set levels.....

Okay, wow, good luck with your productions, as you know better than guys with degrees in audio and years of experience. Personally, now you have my curiosity, care to link some of your work? I would love to see how you can capture audio well, using your methods.

Something to think about: you asked a group of people who work HARD to get the best audio and you say
I don't want to hire someone extra just for holding the mikes and monitoring audio
Click to expand...
, hmmmmmm. See where I am going? On one hand you show a disdain for audio engineers and our hard work, but you still want our advice. Any wonder why you are getting the advice you are getting here? You are basically saying: "I am not going to do what it takes to get good sound because "xyz" list of reasons (read: it's not that important), but hey give me some advice."

BTW, that device just detects, does not DF the signal.
 
Last edited:
j1clark@ucsd.edu said:
Don't know anything more than a google search on your key words... I would think this is a legal device. A 'scanner' that can decode 'cell phone conversations', 'identify cell phones based on information traded during calls or recalibration activities', or 'intercept cell phone connections' probably is not legal in the US... don't know about 'elsewhere'...

I think this device may just sense 'energy' in cell phone frequency bands.

http://sbsurvco.com/MD-40MOBILEPHONEDETECTOR.html
Click to expand...

Thanks for this info.

"[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]This new generation law enforcement grade, pocket sized unit is all you need to instantly and silently detect the use of cell phone transmissions so your conversations, meetings, and information remain secure with no leaks!"

But I think mobile phones already cause the buzzing on the mikes when they are not sending or receiving calls or text messages, it's the the scanning for network that also causes the buzzing, I think. So transmissions alone aren't the problem. I think.


[/FONT]
 
Once audio starts doesn't mean it is going to be flawless the whole time, which is why it is critically important to monitor it all the time. Wireless systems take hits. Cables go bad. Microphones die (I actually helped someone troubleshoot what we thought was a bad cable in a boom pole but turned out to be a bad mic). These things happen during takes, and if you aren't monitoring you'll never know until you start editing, and by then it's too late unless you have the budget to do re-shoots. If you are unable to be the sound mixer, then the next best solution is to hire a sound mixer to do the job properly for you. A production sound mixer isn't just someone who holds microphones or monitors audio. They are able to troubleshoot things like what you are experiencing, as well as location issues, getting clean audio, and a myriad of other things. If you want to have quality productions, and are paying other people to be there, you should want to pay for a production sound mixer that knows what they are doing. There is a reason high quality productions are high quality, and that is they don't skimp on the necessities, like the abilities to capture good picture and good sound.
 
Yes there is a fix. It's called an audio mixer. Hire one. Problem solved.

On the flip side you can hire a really good post person who can spend a lot of time "fixing" the mistake you "didn't" make. But being one of those post people I have to say it's cheaper to hire the mixer in the first place.
 
>>>>But I think mobile phones already cause the buzzing on the mikes when they are not sending or receiving calls or text messages, it's the the scanning for network that also causes the buzzing, I think. So transmissions alone aren't the problem. I think.<<<<

Yes, I believe you are correct. We have this problem both in the recording studio and on live gigs. We turn all of our phones off, and sometimes we _still_ have to do re-takes because of cell-phone interference; and I frequently have no idea where it's coming from. And the awful clicking thing does seem to be a scanning function.

As to the comments made by Doc and Dave and Noiz, I must say I agree, or at least I understand that position, while trying to understand yours. I'm a low-budget guy too, and I come from a music and audio background, so I cut corners on the cameraman/DP, which I'm sure would raise ire in those forums if I approached things the way you seem to be. I think it's just a mis-communication/misunderstanding, not any kind of malicious attack on the craft of production audio, but a better way to phrase your question might have been "I'm trying to learn to be a better live production sound tech. One of my problems is the incessant interference I'm getting from cell-phones..." then you're asking for help, without slamming anybodies profession.

As to your "Don't want to wear headphones" problem, you have two possible solutions. One of them might add more technical headaches to the mix, and would be pretty costly, but you can invest in a wireless in-ear monitoring system. Otherwise, you're going to have to monitor whichever camera is getting production audio (or a separate recorder) with headphones throughout the shoot; it's the only way to know when you'll need re-takes. Fixing stuff like that in post is not only very difficult, but a stone drag.

GJ
 
Last edited:
I had to add some.

There are signs on the road telling you what speed your required to stay under. You can get fined have your insurance go up etc by ignoring those signs. How often do you find traffic going under the limit? So what makes you think that with a LOT less incentive folks are going to pay attention to your limits? There are NO consequences for them because with out monitoring you have no idea who was "breaking the law".

And I'm sorry but not monitoring your sound is exactly the same as not monitoring your picture and then complaining that it's out of focus. IF you care you pay attention. IF YOU can't pay attention you hire someone who will.

What producers do, you asked, is that if this kind of thing gets past their sound person - they fire them. I suggest you do the same.
 
RieniO said:
By the way, when I'm editing the footage in FCP on my MacBookPro using my headphone, I often pick up the audio from the TV channel my neigbors are watching. This gets picked up by the headphone cable. I don't know what my neigbors are using, maybe they have some inhouse transmitter system to send the signal from their satellite receive to their bedroom, or something like that.
Click to expand...

Actually that is not possible. The signal has to be picked up somewhere else. There is no amplification going to your headphones so RF is not going to induce enough signal to be audible. I would suspect that you have some weak or unshielded cable someplace feeding an input.
 
Easy now, don't take it personally. He's probably new to film-making, and he's getting an education here. Down the road, he will probably realize people were trying to help him. If not, his loss, Youtube is famous for horrible videos from pseudo-filmmakers who think they are the next Speilberg, but haven't a clue.

LOL, I know a few people like that in my circle of friends.

Short anecdote: I was on an internet radio show back in the day, huge following. Was a co-host and 2nd engineer. One day the host came in and asked if we could set up a complex feed into the show. Myself and the 1st engineer both said do-able, but it would take time to set up the patching. The host said to us "What, isn't it just click-click-click on the computer?" Just shows how people just don't get how intense good audio can get at times.

Methinks the OP is one of those people who think good audio is just out there waiting to jump into the recorder/camera and there is no real work required to get it. Audio is like fishing, just because you show up in a boat with a fishing pole, the fish ain't gonna just jump in. You have to do your part.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top