MKH 416 vs NTG 3 for Indoor use

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Nytkim

Member
Again the 416 vs ntg 3 comparison. I do know shotguns are not the best for indoor use, but I am looking for an all arounder shotgun until I get an hypercardiod. I also want to use it for SFX, foley and ADR.

I have seen lots of people complaining about the 416 indoors. Do you guys think the ntg 3 works better indoors?

Another thing: Do you think the 416 would get more business because of its reputation?

Thanks.
 
Yes to both of your questions.

On another note, why get a good alrounder if you expect to buy the specialized tool later? Wouldn't that leave you with a shotgun that does its job worse than just buying the mic you need most now and get the other one when you need that?

I'd say in most use cases you are mostly indoor or mostly outdoors - get that respective mic (hypercardioid or shotgun, respectively) first.
 
They sound a little different, but both are capable mics. Both work fine indoors if the person using them knows what they're doing - the continual comments about hypers indoors and shotguns outdoors is, in my view, down to the fact that lazy booming indoors with a hyper is less troublesome. You can even see people mess up, when they point their shotgun vaguely in the direction of people's mouths. I'm certain that much of the bad press comes from the shotgun very happily capturing the sound of the bounce back from the wall, having been pointed that way rather than at somebodies mouth! Beware the indoor shotgun user who is NOT wearing headphones.

On the second point - nobody has ever asked me what is inside my hairy sausage. I've got two I use regularly, and discovered my accident that the one with the 416, was in fact an AT, and the one I was convinced had the AT in was the 416!

People ask me about cameras because of the format, but very rarely do people ask audio questions.
 
Nytkim said:
Again the 416 vs ntg 3 comparison. I do know shotguns are not the best for indoor use, but I am looking for an all arounder shotgun until I get an hypercardiod. I also want to use it for SFX, foley and ADR.
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If it were me, I'd be looking for a good hypercardioid I could use for everything until I could afford a shotgun. I find hypers a lot more useful for dialog recording, both inside and outside, than shotguns. Not the popular opinion, I know. But it's been my experience none the less.

Nytkim said:
I have seen lots of people complaining about the 416 indoors. Do you guys think the ntg 3 works better indoors?
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They should be comparable indoors. The problem comes from fast first reflections, like from ceilings and nearby walls. The interference tube design both these mics use doesn't play nice with these reflections. This can cause audible artifacts in the recording that are really very difficult to fix.

Nytkim said:
Another thing: Do you think the 416 would get more business because of its reputation?
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No idea. I find that results get more business than equipment labels. But I have no doubt that the first thing some people read is your equipment list. But is this the client you really want?
 
Whether a shotgun mic will 'work' depends on the room/environment.

I have never been asked, (by a perspective client) what brand of mics/gear I have. I assume (and hope) they're calling based on my reputation.
However, after being hired, I give production an equipment list (with brand/model/ser#) for the insurance certificate.

A OMB videographer's clients may differ.
 
Nytkim said:
I have seen lots of people complaining about the 416 indoors. Do you guys think the ntg 3 works better indoors?
Click to expand...
Haha, if they are complaining, then "they" are not doing it right.


The 416 has the 'it' sound, similar to the way the Scheops have the 'it' sound (not saying the 416 is in the same league of musicality, but in what we are accustomed to hearing, as the 416 has been a staple of movies and television). A MKH60 or a CMIT5u will have more flexibility, but not necessarily be better. It comes down to the application and the acoustics of the space.

I really don't see either of these mice as competitors. They sound different. The newer shawties have a all the spec slogans like, smoother off axis, etc, but they still sound like a shotgun.

If you really want versatility for film production consider:

1. True versatility comes from having different polar patterns, not the "shotgun that can still work indoors". A shotgun and a hyper will be better than any other BEST shotgun. So, unless you are running-and-gunning-and-one-man-banding, don't let all-rounders get in your way.

2. Listen to your needs. If you need reach, then test them out and see which one has more reach. These newer all rounder shotguns generally don't have the reach of the 416. So, you may actually need the reach, more than the smooth off axis sound. If you have a hyper, than you could use a hyper for those times, but when you need the reach, you don't have to go splurge on a long shotgun if your short shotgun has more reach than the average short shotgun.

3. If you need the 'it' factor, then get something that is known for the 'it' factor. Otherwise, most anything in a similar price range will get you 90% of the way there, and maybe even bring other benefits with it.

I forgot what else I was going to write.
 
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Pretty much every single TV drama I have worked on from a boom op to a dubbing mixer has used a 416 inside and out, OK some radio mic's may have come into the picture but the 416 has been the stock mic for UK TV drama production.

Ok there are better mics made by sennheiser these days but I have only used KM84 or cardioid mic's such as the U87 on fisher booms in a studio.
 
So I will probably get the 416 if I can get a good deal. It seems to perform better outdoors than the NTG 3, which is its main use, and it's easy to sell. But now I have been thinking about the hypercardioid mics and included the MKH 50 on the list.

I will probably be shooting much more indoors than outdoors. But there are two things that worries me about the MKH 50: won't the 416 record much better if the distance is a little big? And doesn't the MKH 50 suffer a lot from handling noise?
 
I'm not a pro when it comes to audio, but the Audix SCX1 is quite a good sounding mic. At 500$, you could get also the NTG3 (700$)... so for 1200$ you would have 2 good mics.
 
Nytkim said:
Again the 416 vs ntg 3 comparison. I do know shotguns are not the best for indoor use, but I am looking for an all arounder shotgun until I get an hypercardiod. I also want to use it for SFX, foley and ADR.

I have seen lots of people complaining about the 416 indoors. Do you guys think the ntg 3 works better indoors?

Another thing: Do you think the 416 would get more business because of its reputation?

Thanks.
Click to expand...

The MKH 8060 will be better for indoor use - but, personally, I would go for the MKH 416 over the NT3 if those are the only choices.
 
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