MixPre II recorders- 32bit float, internal TC generator, lotso dynamic range

Most conversations I have seen on this get numbers confused. There is the 32bit float file, 32 bit float processing internal to the program, and the bit depth of the actual program.
So while many DAW's used 32 bit float for processing they did not read or write 32 bit float files and of course nether are related (directly anyway) to whether the DAW is a 32 bit application.

ProTools historically did not process in 32 bit Float it used 48 bit fixed, and it didn't read or write 32 bit float. It may now but if we are talking about post sound on a big feature the odds are that the version of PT is a number of versions back.
 
Pro Tools stopped using 24/48 fixed in 2011. Since then it's 32/64-bit float.
Apps have been 32-bit for over 20 years, now most current apps are 64-bit (compiled for 64-bit OSes). Float-32 (single) and -64 (double) are indeed separate from the app's compilation (32 or 64-bit instructions and addressing).

If someone's using old Pro Tools TDM hardware (24/48 bit) along with an old copy of Pro Tools, they could run post 2011 Pro Tools to fix over/under (levels) recordings then save as 24 bit files for further editing on the old TDM hardware (I used to own TDM hardware with Pro Tools- was glad to sell it and just use the computer: can edit anywhere, laptop etc.).
 
Jim Feeley said:
Perhaps it's helpful to view 32-bit float as analogous to auto-focus: A useful too that's not needed or even beneficial to plenty of productions.
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I'm not an audio expert in any way, but I see it more like what raw recording is to video shooting. It's simply more information available for post production to do with as it pleases. If it was recorded properly on set, then all is good. But if on the one great acting take the performer unexpectedly screamed really loudly, in 32bit float it means that the audio file didn't clip.

It's a safety net, and one that will come in very handy for lower budget shoots.
 
For those who have used 32bit recorders, how do they compensate for audio monitoring? I imagine some type of compression. I mean, the last thing I want is the full dynamic range transmitted to my ears. I learned through experience that one of the nice things about limiters is that they protect your hearing.
 
cpreston said:
For those who have used 32bit recorders, how do they compensate for audio monitoring? I imagine some type of compression. I mean, the last thing I want is the full dynamic range transmitted to my ears. I learned through experience that one of the nice things about limiters is that they protect your hearing.
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Agree it’s needed. Haven’t heard back if they added an output limiter, for both headphones and to camera (requested features after testing the MixPre 6 I).
 
My copy of Sound Forge 9.0e from 2007 supports 32-bit float recordings with up to 32 channels. I bet 32-bit float support probably goes back to earlier versions of Sound Forge too.
 
Nice review from from Curtis Judd that demos the wide dynamic range capabilities and has a comparison with the Zoom F6.

 
TheDingo said:
My copy of Sound Forge 9.0e from 2007 supports 32-bit float recordings with up to 32 channels. I bet 32-bit float support probably goes back to earlier versions of Sound Forge too.
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Not go off-topic but.. Sound Forge has been 32-bit float as far back as possible with early PC hardware and the OS. The same with Vegas. Both of which were acquired from Sony in 2016 by MAGIX Software GmbH. Prior to Sony, Sonic Foundry was the initial developer of Sound Forge and Vegas. I have been a Sound Forge user since version 3.0 and a Vegas user since version 1.0, which was a DAW (audio only.. no video).
I am the moderator of the MAGIX Sound Forge forum.
 
Anyone actually shooting with the new SD Mix Pre IIs? I have the Mix Pre 3 V1 and really like it, it's amazingly cool for so little money.
The Mix Pre IIs look even better, the new features look amazing.
 
filmguy has a MP6II: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?365883-Will-intense-level-overages-hurt-a-pre-amp-recorder . He recently over-drove the input from a sound board and was able to completely recover in post (32-bit float).
I'm using the Zoom F6 and only record in 32-bit float- so liberating not having to worry about levels being too high or too low.

Recommend comparing the F6 against MPII's before purchasing/upgrading - I prefer the F6 form factor and power options vs. MP series. Also prefer the neutral sound of F6 (hopefully someday SD will provide an option to turn off their custom EQ) + no bugs found so far (vs. many for the MP6 I).
 
I didn’t own the series I and I have limited experience so far, so I doubt I’m of much help, however I’ve loved my experience so far and have had no issue.
 
So, is it confirmed that the SD recorders are using dual ADC's with fixed preamps and stitching together to produce the expanded range for the 32bit float recording? Mostly, I'm confused about how they get around the problem of clipping the preamp or the ADC's in order to make 32bit float worthwhile.
 
cpreston said:
So, is it confirmed that the SD recorders are using dual ADC's with fixed preamps and stitching together to produce the expanded range for the 32bit float recording? Mostly, I'm confused about how they get around the problem of clipping the preamp or the ADC's in order to make 32bit float worthwhile.
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Yeah it appears they're using at least 2 preamps (as is the Zoom F6) to get the expanded DR. No need to worry about clipping or elevated noise floor if recording too low- can record jets and mosquitos in the same take. Float audio rocks!
 
jcs said:
filmguy has a MP6II: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?365883-Will-intense-level-overages-hurt-a-pre-amp-recorder . He recently over-drove the input from a sound board and was able to completely recover in post (32-bit float).
I'm using the Zoom F6 and only record in 32-bit float- so liberating not having to worry about levels being too high or too low.

Recommend comparing the F6 against MPII's before purchasing/upgrading - I prefer the F6 form factor and power options vs. MP series. Also prefer the neutral sound of F6 (hopefully someday SD will provide an option to turn off their custom EQ) + no bugs found so far (vs. many for the MP6 I).
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I am tempted by the F6, except for the Zoom name and the weird, funky layout and access to the gain/level knobs looks awkward. In LA, Sound Devices anything is going to get you more work as a sound mixer than a Zoom.
A lot of clients don't care what you use and for them, the F6 looks like a steal, but I am leaning toward updating to the Mix Pre 10 II as it has more outputs, inputs, real dedicated TC BNC i/o and I like the layout a lot better
than the F6. Been considering the F8N too, although I am hoping that Zoom will add the 32-bit float to it soon. If it was just for my own projects, I'd get the F6, it's such a steal but for potential sound mixing clients, I think
the SD might be a smarter move as far as marketing. I've been down this road so many times over the years, you buy a product that's good, often better than the "name" industry standard product or as good as a lower
price, then you spend all of your time trying to convince clients to hire you because your gear is just as good, if not better than the "name" product they are asking for.

It's like having a C200 when clients ask for as FS7. You can try to sell them on the C200 all you want but if they ask for an FS7, they are going to hire a person with an FS7. I think the Zoom vs. SD thing is the same? Any
freelance sound mixers here with the F8/F8N? How often do the people hiring you ask if you have an SD recorder? Or a Nova? How many people ASK for a Zoom?
 
"How often do the people hiring you ask if you have an SD or a Nova?
>None

"How many people ASK for a Zoom? "
>None

I guess NY is different
 
Rick R said:
"How often do the people hiring you ask if you have an SD or a Nova?
>None

"How many people ASK for a Zoom? "
>None

I guess NY is different
Click to expand...

Possibly and it totally depends on which niche you play in as far as location sound. Worked on a national commercial a few weeks ago and sound mixer had probably $75K worth of Zaxcom, tons of Comteks, Lectro and Zaxcom radios all over the place,
mixing cart, two boom ops, etc. But most of the stuff I do is single or possibly two cameras, interviews, sometimes some higher concept studio stuff that's stil pretty simple audio. The audio requirements for this level of work are obviously much lower. Did a live event thing a few
weeks ago, three camera shoot, talking heads on stage, then breakout sessions in other rooms. One sound mixer for all of it, which in the main session was fine but we got bad audio in the breakouts as he was running between three rooms, not
enough time to mic talent as they should be, etc.

I have the Mix Pre 3 V1 and I really dig it for what it is, I just bought it for my own little shoots which are typically pretty unambitious, one or two interviews and for the walking around stuff, often using the Tascam DR-10Ls, which have been decent for when
we don't have a sound mixer. But thinking of beefing up my package and going for some friends and colleagues gigs as a sound mixer, there are a lot really bad sound mixers in this level, I've hired several over the past few months, lazy, don't double mic interviews,
don't hide lavs for interviews, don't know how to set up camera hops properly, etc. Stuff I can do in my sleep so some producers may like hiring a sound mixer who actually isn't just going through the motions? ;-) I love being a DP/camera op but it seems like there
is a shortage of good, conscientious, on the ball sound mixers in this market, at the lower end. Lot's of good $1,500.00 per day people, not very many $650.00 per day + kit people, or at least that's been my experience. Since I produce and also DP, I think that
could actually give me a better persepctive than someone who has only done sound for 20 years, had a bad back, is jaded and lazy because I know what I expect when I hire a sound mixer as a producer and few of them are delivering.

So considering the F6, Mix Pre 6 II, Mix Pre 10 II, F8N, but leaning toward the Mix Pre 10 II mostly as I think for the simpler stuff I usually do, it would be great but would have
enough inputs for bigger projects like four radios and boom, etc. The 32-bit float is interesting although honestly, at the level of work I usually do, realistically, the recorder audio is rarely used, it's usually the camera audio, but the 32-bit float provides a nice
safety net if the camera hop gets messed up.

I'm probably going to just try a few gigs with my existing package, the Mix Pre 3 V1, Tentacle Sync Es, Audix, AT and Røde Shotguns and HCs, OSTs, Countryman B6 before I upgrade the recorder.
 
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Dan- a buddy works full time in sound for video games and film (high end). Years ago when I got the SD USB Pre2 I was curious why he was very vocal about not using SD gear. Something about cost vs. benefit, though he sounded mostly annoyed (maybe he had a similar experience with SD gear as I had with the MP6 I (lots of design issues, bugs, etc.)). That said, if SD had fixed all the bugs I found I would still have considered the MP6 II if it provided better sound/quality/features/usability vs. the Zoom F6. My buddy can afford anything- if there was a $100K piece of gear that helped him make a profit, he'd get it.

If I worked full time in sound, I'd use whatever provided the best quality/usability/features to get the work done. The cost difference between e.g. the F6 and MP6 II is negligible (though a much bigger difference for the F8 and equivalent SD gear). For Foley/SFX, my buddy is using the F8.

Your current gear is perfectly fine for dialog (until you need more channels). I used to think SD was much better than Zoom, sound quality wise, however after doing spectral analysis I found Zoom was actually more accurate (less colored), though SD coloring is nice for dialog (the same EQ/coloring can be applied to Zoom in post).
 
If I were going to start doing gigs like that I would definitely want 32 bit float after playing with this. It is bullet proof. I’m not a sound guy but recording like this seems in my perspective one of the biggest audio breakthroughs in a long time and I can’t even imagine recording something mission critical without it anymore.

This may sound crazy but the technology is there - if you’re OMB and concerned about too low of a level on something, you can just put the speaker or item cranked up a bit more to get a clean signal and not worry about overdriving it, just pull it back down in post. With this gone are the days of stressing if you’re as high as you can be without being too high.
 
jcs said:
Dan- a buddy works full time in sound for video games and film (high end). Years ago when I got the SD USB Pre2 I was curious why he was very vocal about not using SD gear. Something about cost vs. benefit, though he sounded mostly annoyed (maybe he had a similar experience with SD gear as I had with the MP6 I (lots of design issues, bugs, etc.)). That said, if SD had fixed all the bugs I found I would still have considered the MP6 II if it provided better sound/quality/features/usability vs. the Zoom F6. My buddy can afford anything- if there was a $100K piece of gear that helped him make a profit, he'd get it.

If I worked full time in sound, I'd use whatever provided the best quality/usability/features to get the work done. The cost difference between e.g. the F6 and MP6 II is negligible (though a much bigger difference for the F8 and equivalent SD gear). For Foley/SFX, my buddy is using the F8.

Your current gear is perfectly fine for dialog (until you need more channels). I used to think SD was much better than Zoom, sound quality wise, however after doing spectral analysis I found Zoom was actually more accurate (less colored), though SD coloring is nice for dialog (the same EQ/coloring can be applied to Zoom in post).
Click to expand...

I hear you, I'm just going off of what producers tend to expect or ask for in the LA market and it seems like it's been SD for decades. The last time I built up an audio bag, I bought the Wendt X4, which I still have (Wendt was literally a block up the street at the time and I actually met and had lunch with Mr. Wendt when he stopped by our office for an interview
for an article I was writing). So it's been a while since I've bought location sound gear beyond what I wanted/needed. The Zoom recorders seem like a better value than the Mix Pre IIs but I'm confident the SDs would work just as well for me. And I like the Kashmir pre-amps, they sound great to me. But my mind isn't yet made up. I really need to
just use the gear I have for now and see if I can make some money and if the clients I would be working for would need more than three sources. Single subject interviews don't, although two person or more interviews need more than three channels at times.
 
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