Mixer or Audio Interface? I'm confused!

A

andrew00

Well-known member
Hey,

I wonder if anyone might be so kind as to help me. I've something of a whirl of confusion.

I was looking to get myself a synth as I've never had one before and was looking at the typical entry level ones - Microkorg/MKorg XL, Alesis Micron, the Xiostations etc. I then realised that I'd also need to get an audio interface - I've been using my Zoom H4 but it won't cut it for the synth's since I'll need Midi.

(Side note, afaik the synths will output using normal line outputs which plug easily into most interfaces, but the midi connection wil be needed for controlling computer midi stuff? - is that right?)

Anyway, I was going to get something decent but not too spartan like the M Audio Fast Track Pro or equivalent, but then I hit on an idea:

Technically through my video work I've amassed a few mics - admittedly two of them are shotguns which won't be great for audio, but are nonetheless decent quality. I've also got a Shure SM and Rode NT4.

I thought, well if I'm going to spend money on an interface perhpas instead of getting a v. simple one to take the odd guitar/mic and the synth, why not get one that can take 4+ mics at once - then when I play with my band I can record out practise sessions using 4+ mics and get a decent quality recording.

This is where I got stuck.

There's all this talk of 2/2 and 2/4 and 4/2 buses and all manner of stuff I have NO CLUE what it means.

From what I can see, however, there's no decent usb interface that will let me plug in 4+ mics at once and record them all to seperate tracks, as well as letting me plug in things like my guitars and this synth.

Also, I've then seen there's mixers out there that seem to do all this - so I'm thinking why do people buy audio interfaces if they can just get a mixer? I must admit I've never had a mixer before but I always assumed they were pretty simple:

Plug stuff into them...tweak the sound so it doesn't clip...record the sound to the computer - done.

That seems more useful than an interface which seems to basically do the same thing but in a much more simple version.

So I'm thinking - is the only real advantage to an interface that's it's SMALL. Is that it? I mean I appreciate the smallness, but if it's at a cost then who knows.

For example there's this mixer - http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/shop/flypage/product_id/14071 which has 10 ish inputs including 6 mic inputs - would this be a good solution for me then? The mixer comes with a cheap USB interface so that suggests it can do everything the bigger interfaces do and more?

So please would someone clear up what's going on and why it's all so confusing. What I'd like to be able to do is this:

1 - Inputs for guitars, mics, synths and midi
2 - USB so I can connect it to my mac and record, don't understand the technology so no mucking about!
3 - The ability to record, if possible, 4 tracks at once, which really means 4 mic inputs.

I don't understand what I need but can people please suggest what I can do for the above.

Oh and Budget = As little as possible! (Much as I'd like to spend more the synth will hit me hard)

Much appreciation!
 
When you're doing multi-track recording, you don't generally do a lot of tweaking to the signal before recording. You want to record the dry signal and tweak to your heart's content afterwards. This gives you a lot more flexibility vs say recording a guitar track with heavy distortion and deciding later that a clean guitar track would sound better.

Because you're recording everything separately, you don't need to be tweaking the relative levels of instruments in the mix live, you just need an interface to get the signals into the computer.

The Behringer USB interfaces are strictly 2-channel devices and completely separate from the mixer. All they let you do is take the tape out from the board into the computer, nothing more.

I use M-Audio's FastTrack Ultra to record 6 tracks (8 if you count the digital in/out). The first four channels have mic pre-amps and all 6 will take line-in. Midi in/out for when you get into that sort of thing. I spent something like $350 CAD for it a year or two ago. Mark of the Unicorn makes great interfaces as well.

If you'd prefer a mixer, Alesis makes some mixers with built in multi-channel interfaces that are fairly inexpensive. You'd need a separate midi interface, but thats easy to come by. Mackie's Onyx boards also have the option (with the addition of a plug-in card) to do multi-track recording via firewire.
 
Ah I think I understand now:

The Mixer accepts multiple inputs but outputs only two channels - L + R - and therefore doesn't perserve each input as it's own channel*

*unless you spend an amount I don't have.

The Interface doesn't give you much control when bringing the sounds in, but it does record them as seperate tracks, so you preserve those tracks to subsequently mix to your hearts content on the pc.

Therefore for me, whether it's recording my band playing live (through multiple mics) or whether it's recording the songs I've written, the interface is the smartest option as it keeps these individual tracks.

The only problem is finding an interface with enough inputs to let you record multiple tracks at once.
 
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Exactly! Couldn't have said it much better myself.

Something to keep in mind: many consumer audio recording softwares will not allow you to record to more than a couple tracks at a time. If you're using a pro application such as Pro Tools or Logic, you won't have a problem. But, for example, Apple's Garageband wont let you record to more than one track at a time.

It's not difficult to figure out: just look at your software's user manual. Should be under "Multi-track Recording" or something similar
 
Ah I use Logic so that shouldn't be a problem, hurrah!

Now to find an interface with 4 inputs that doesn't cost the earth!
 
I haven't done a TON of research but I don't think you'll have an easy time finding a USB interface with 4 XLR inputs. Not too sure if USB can handle that much at once. Have yo considered firewire? I don't know your exact budget, but the Presonus Firepod is a good quality firewire interface with 8 inputs. Roughly $400.

If anyone else knows of some better deals, (or if my information on USB is just plain wrong) please let us know

http://www.presonus.com/products/Detail.aspx?ProductId=3
 
USB2.0, which basically any computer built in recent years will have, works just fine for multitrack recording, firewire got the head start because USB1.1 was so pathetically slow.

Phonic and Alesis both have USB2.0 mixers that handle upwards of 20 tracks.

M-Audio, Tascam, and Mark of the Unicorn have 4+ track USB options and I'm sure most of the other brands have some options too.
 
Give a look into the Alesis mixer lineups and you'll probably find something within your price range. The USB or Firewire Multimix Mixers are able to record individual channels as well as a two-track mixdown. They won't cost you an arm and a leg. The only decent MOTU devices that records 4+ channels w/ pre-amplifiers are the 8Pre and Traveler MK3, but they cost 2x more than the Alesis Multimix Mixers.
 
Andrew,

There are 2 general methods to record in multitrack fashion. The first is recording one track at a time, which you can do yourself if you play enough different type of instruments or play those instruments on the synth, one at a time. The second method is simultaneous recording of more than one instrument at a time keeping each on it's own track so it can be manipulated during the mix down process, which you do through a mixer after all tracks are recorded.

You can also record the whole band in stereo to capture the entire sound of a live gig or a rehearsal at one sitting assuming that the "live" mix received by the mic or mics is balanced properly. This is the easiest & cheapest method. This is the method I would choose to use on practices.

With the Multitrack simultaneous recording process with a band, you must also think about how you are going to get the drums and instruments as well as the vocals. If you're going to mic the drum kit it will take about 5 mics to do it properly. Add those 5 to the 4 vocals and that will give you the number of mic inputs you will need. Then count up the number of instruments with 1/4" inputs. Live guitars & basses do not put out line level signals (keyboards do) unless they have active pickups (battery powered), so they should go through DI boxes or an FX pedal that will either boost it to line level OR drop it to Mic level. Some times the board may be able to amplify them without the DI or pedals, but you need to check that out in the buying process.

Also please note that there are differences between recording boards and live sound boards. Recording boards usually have: Lower noise levels, mute & solo switches, tape returns, insert points for each channel, and signal level leds or meters on each channel. Can you do without these? Yes, but it gets harder and more time consuming. It just depends on how good you want the recording quality to be.

As far as mutitracking to your computer goes, if you are going to put several channels in simultaneously you might be better off to go with Fire wire. If you have to go with USB it must be USB 2.

Regarding midi, unless you are using sounds inside the computer, you won't need to hook up midi if you're "live" recording as a group. If you want to be able to record the midi output from the synth so you can go in and fix mistakes and such, then you'll need a midi port of some kind and a sequencer program in the computer. Some programs allow both midi and live instrument tracks to be recorded and some even have a built in mixer too.

Finally, a book on Home recording would provide you with many more things to learn and think about, like mic techniques, etc, etc, etc..

Have fun!

Ken
 
andrew00 said:
Ah I think I understand now:

The Mixer accepts multiple inputs but outputs only two channels - L + R - and therefore doesn't perserve each input as it's own channel*

*unless you spend an amount I don't have.

The Interface doesn't give you much control when bringing the sounds in, but it does record them as seperate tracks, so you preserve those tracks to subsequently mix to your hearts content on the pc.

Therefore for me, whether it's recording my band playing live (through multiple mics) or whether it's recording the songs I've written, the interface is the smartest option as it keeps these individual tracks.

The only problem is finding an interface with enough inputs to let you record multiple tracks at once.
Click to expand...

Not quite accurate. It's not an either/or scenario - I didn't see what "...an amount I don't have" might be for you, but for example I use both a mixer AND an interface.

I have an Echo AudioFire 12 interface that accepts up to 12 simultaneous input channels which can all be recorded on their own individual tracks. In fact I also have an AudioFire 8 and they can be daisy-chained on their firewire ports to give 20 simultaneous recording tracks if I really need it (Never done it but its possible.) But its inputs have no level controls whatsoever, hardware or software, and so you need to use a mixer to feed it and control levels etc.

I have a Mackie 1642 which has 10 mic inputs. The first 8 input strips have "direct" outputs, which means that each mic can be routed BOTH to the mix bus for stereo output AND also can be taken out on an isolated output all by itself right after the input channel's fader. In fact, you can send it out through the direct out without even including in the stereo output mix at all.

So if you want to record a multimic setup - mics 1 thru 8 plug into mixer inputs 1 thru 8 then are taken out of each channel's direct to interface inputs 1 thru 8. Mics 9 and 10 go to mixer inputs 9 and 10 to your choice of several mixer outputs (aux busses, sub busses, or main mix) and into interface inputs 9 and 10. 10 independently controllable mic channels recording simultanous independent tracks not enough for ya? Borrow another mixer and we could go to recording all 12 channels and add the other interface and we could do up to 20. Not saying that arrangement is the best, just that its theoretically possible - for example, I'd probably mix the drumkit down to stereo in the mixer, send it out to the interface through one of the submix busses and record it as a stereo track rather than recording each mic separately and mixing them later.
 
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If you're looking to save a little money, buy an interface that has level control for each channel.
Easy to find
 
Thanks a lot for the replies, this being a confusing area it's been very useful to clear it up so many cheers!

I spotted this today - http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/product/36478-alesis-alesis-multimix-16-usb-mixer.html

Does anyone have anything to say about it?

From the site it's suggesting it is a mixer that outputs each track seperately to the old mac. That would seem pretty decent?

It's £530 on the site, but I know a place selling one for £300 new.

It seems a good deal? More than I wanted to spend mind!

Although I read somewhere that they don't have mic pre-amps. This confused me because I thought the whole point of the thing is that it does this job - i.e. you plug it in, adjust the gain which is the pre amp stage, then adjust the fader knob to get the level for your recording. Am I wrong here?
 
I use REAPER, a wide array of VSTi's (virtual instruments), an Alesis Fusion 8HD, Yamaha digital piano, and Alesis i/o2 USB interface. Basically, this probably isn't the best place to ask about this side of music production. That said, let me give you succinct information to help you out, since I was once in your shoes:

1. An audio interface is a sound card. It actually digitizes the sound in addition to being a hub for all your connections. Basically, if you want 4 XLR in's, you could get a mixer and connect it to an audio interface or get a Firewire interface with 4+ separate inputs. Mixers, in their purest form, do not digitize or record audio. So things like the Alesis MultiMix would be better called mixer / interface combos since they do have A/D, D/A conversion along with mixer features. Steve House gave a good description of his mixer set-up.

2. Are you deadset on USB? While USB is typically cheaper, Firewire will be better for 4 simultaneous tracks and should be right up your alley since you have a Mac. But, if you'd rather just mixdown your work to stereo tracks, then USB will be more than adequate.

3. There are good resources for you to explore to learn. Buying a book about home recording is a great idea. Also, check out Logic's message boards. There will be plenty of knowledgeable people there. Another great resource are the forums at Harmony-Central.com.

4. What's your budget for your interface / mixer set-up? £300 is a good chunk of change.

Send me a PM if you'd like. I'd be happy to help guide you along your path to musical satori.
 
I've heard some good things about the Alesis, it appears to be quite good for the price you pay. It should do everything you're looking for, except for midi, but when you need that you can get a usb->midi dongle for next to nothing.
 
Anytime you see a mixer with XLR inputs, it's going to have mic preamps behind it. This one has 8.
 
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