minimal need's to sell services to local productions as audio mixer/recorder?

KarlSutton

KarlSutton

Well-known member
I have 20+ years audio post production experience and have done video production & editing the last 8 years.

After doing many productions as the "all-in one" (lights/camera/sound) man, I've been hired to be just the "sound-guy" on a few jobs and I really enjoyed it.
These were friends who knew I would get it right & didn't care about gear, etc.

What would be the minimum expectations of gear/experience for a medium-higher end production looking to hire a sound guy?

What would be some common scenarios I would be hired for?

Thank you for any insights!
 
My wife kept telling me to do production and I kept telling her I spent my $50K on post and didn't have $50k to do production...

The answer though really depends on what kind of projects you are trying to get.

You better than any of us can say who would be hiring you.

Off the top I would say feature films with real budgets are probably not an option. Unless you have your card and a good relationship with the local.

Local ads probably. Low budget films, especially local, probably.

My impression is that big budget films and probably national ads are going to bring in the mixer and the mixer generally brings in their assistant and or boom op. So what is left is the utility and that is going to come out of the union hall. As a general rule theatre folks hate film work so IF your local is mostly stage work you might be able to get in. On bigger projects the mixer is going to be the one bringing most/ all the gear so your needs would be minimal.

My experience on the lower stuff is that on many/ most low budget shorts and features you need to bring a decent recorder, boom with a hyper and a shotgun. Often wireless and a cables, and maybe a feed to the director.

Ads at almost all levels seem to require a lot of comdex to keep all the non decision making VIP's happy and wireless on everybody. That also means a bunch more tracks, so 4-8 probably.

Move up a bit in budget and you will need to be able to do TC. Also most of the above should probably also include a cart, and by the time your doing ads it's pretty much a requirement. And you are going to need to power it all.

Senn. wireless is probably fine for most of the above. Any feature with a budget or national ad is probably going to want stuff in the Lectrosonics range or better.

"Reality TV" stuff I have done wanted TC, lots of wireless and a few comdex, and more than one system.

Personally I prefer post. The first 20 hr day on a low budget shoot in the rain with a 30 min. roundtrip to get to a bathroom kind of takes to joy out.
Post has it's stress but you are at least not going to be doing while cold, wet, tired, hungry, and dying to take a piss.
 
Most producers and PMs I've encountered don't care (and/or don't know gear), as long as it sounds good. If they're paying the going rate for labor and gear, I bring the top shelf gear. (SD and Lectros) Tacscam and Sennheisers for back-up and non-critical camera hops, ect.
 
Figure out what your "typical" gig will entail, and buy enough kit to do that job, along with some backup of course. For bigger or different gigs, rent. Then after a while, you'll get a sense of whether it makes sense to buy rather than rent extra equipment. The challenge: getting fair rental rates from producers is often difficult. And places like VER will toss in (often crappy, incomplete, and not-ready-for-the-gig) audio kits. I rarely work with equipment that I don't own, and won't work with audio kits from VER...but the thing is producers aware of VER's practice hold that over mixers' heads to bargain for lower equipment charges. This isn't an issue with my regular clients, but it is with some out-of-town people. The point of this semi-rant: Figure out how you're going to make the equipment you need earn its keep.

In one significant way, you have a big advantage of lots of us: There's an excellent location-audio dealer and rental house in Nashville. I know it's a big town and you might live far from their location. But still, you have a great local resource for new, used, and rental equipment...and for good advice.
http://www.trewaudio.com

>What would be the minimum expectations of gear/experience for a medium-higher end production looking to hire a sound guy?
Depends on the type of production. For me it's a lot of corporate stuff (sit-down interviews, verite-ish stuff), documentaries, very little fiction narrative, some newsmag stuff. If you are thinking mainly of doing medium-higher end jobs out of a sound bag, then perhaps...starting from the sound source, these are some of the default professional choices. There are of course alternatives...

Two boom mics, one for interior, one for exterior.
Interiors: Schoeps 641 or Sennheiser MKH50 (though the MKH40 and some others are worth considering.
Exteriors: Sanken CS3e (for less-controlled/street/noisy/verite situations) or Schoeps CMIT 5U or miniCMIT (for controlled situations...like narrative sets)

Boom + Mounts
K-Tek 9-foot or 12-foot pole; Ambient, Panamic, VDB, etc also have their fans) internal cabling works fine these days, imo.
Rycote Lyre mounts. The work well and are inexpensive.
Windscreen- Rycote Windshields are still most common, though I recently got one of their newer Cyclones...it's nice.

Wireless systems
At least two channels. Four would be better to own (you could perhaps use two channels as a camera hop for some gigs; and as extra talent systems on other gigs).
I'd go for Lectrosonics or Zaxcom; used could be a good option, though their newer wide-band systems aren't showing up on the used market yet. ---Maybe one or two cheap Sennheiser systems for camera hops, if you're mainly sending scratch tracks.

Lavs
Countryman, Sanken, the more-expensive Sennheisers, and DPA are good. Some people still like TRAM (nothing wrong with that), but I'd probably start with a couple Sanken COS-11 lavs and a couple Countryman EMW (or TRAM...or similar)... BTW- I own over a dozen lavs and I only do small gigs, but different mics for different situations.

Recorder/Mixer
Kinda expected these days, ime.
Sound Devices 633 or Zaxcom Maxx --both have their fans.
Zoom F4 & F8 could maybe work (and are A LOT less expensive than the 633 and Maxx), and Ric's comment about producers/PMs not caring about gear brands is mostly true (The name Schoeps still impresses some)...but some DPs and others will, especially on higher-end gigs...and DPs can often be good sources for future gigs... Note that a F4 could be a reasonable backup recorder to a 633 or Maxx...

Camera hop and cable
Cables can work for sit-down interviews. But I still end up sending final-quality sound to camera with some regularity. NOTE that some people I know aren't sending high-quality hops much...either scratch and/or timecode with the tracks on their mixer as primary audio...so figure out what you and your market want and need. I use Lectro systems for reliable hops...and as I said above, those systems also function as extra talent wireless (when I don't need a high-quality hop), backup, etc. The Zaxcom Camera Link-RX200 systems are intriguing, but not cheap (and IIRC, the transmitter isn't yet wideband...ie, you have to choose a block for your system...perhaps that will change at NAB?). I also have an old-fashioned breakaway cable that still seems some use.

Timecode boxes
It's getting a lot more common for me, at least, to stick a timecode generator on a camera. Not sync, like with an Ambient Lockit, but just timecode. And for camera, the smaller the better. So that often means Tentacle...though Denecke, Mozegear, and Betso have nice small generators that aren't too expensive. (Timecode Systems has some cool stuff, but it's not part of my world...others love it).

Timecode Slate
Depends on your work. I hardly ever use one. Leading brands remain Denecke and Ambient.
Maybe rent if needed, then wait to find a good one used.

IFB/Comtek system
So clients can listen in...or just so they can wear the headphones around their neck and look cool.
But you know, these aren't always needed...this might be a good rental item when starting out and seeing what your market wants.
Maybe Comtek 216 system with 2-3 receivers. Or Lectro or Zaxcom alternatives

Bag + Harness for everything
K-Tek, Orca, and Portabrace are still the leading bags in North America. All are solid, but have different features and design philosophies. Go to Trew and try out a few different ones. Add in Versa-Flex when checking out harnesses.

Headphones
I still use Sony 7506. Some people use others, but I find the 7506 emphasizes the handling, wind, and other icky noises I'm trying to minimize.

Power
Some sort of battery system to run your bag...I'm getting tired...poke around Trewaudio.com and other location-sound sites for options.

Cables and accessories
Ya, a catchall. So sue me. Budget say $1000-$1500 for all the other stuff you need.


If you're more interested in working from a cart on bigger jobs, I suggest you try to get some gigs working as an A3 or A2 for a good mixer on their "small" jobs. See what they're doing, how much equipment they own, if it seems like fun...and if there's room in your market for another cart guy.


Well that's plenty from me. Give Trew a call, ask them when they will be slow and would have time to guide you through some of this....
 
combatentropy said:
another perspective...
Click to expand...

Yes, that level of production still exists. It's more popular in ENG-style production than it is with narrative or doc work, or "reality" TV. I still take shoots every once in a while where all I need are a field mixer, boom kit, a couple wireless kits, and a feed to camera. Those are typically for news magazines, C-SPAN, etc. So if your bread and butter is news-style production, then a smaller kit will suffice.

Most productions I deal with will inquire about kit availability, and request what they need or send a minimum/basic requirement spec sheet.

And most indie low-/no-budget projects around here have no clue what they want or need, and are trying to get by on as little budget as they can. That's where a lot of conversation is required.
 
combatentropy said:
another perspective...



--- http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?223499-Budget-for-sound-guy (2014)
Click to expand...

Hummmm......?

I just read that whole thread. What I got was a guy offering $1.5K for a couple of weeks work. And he gets calls from people saying, I will do it but you have to pay me $10K. So, everyone jumps in and explains why he has to pay $10K.

I don't see it. If you can not afford to work for what he was offering (and I understand that thread was 7 years ago) you do not apply. Maybe you ask or $200 a day, in the hopes he will come up a bit, but basically you don't call the guy is you are not willing to so the job for what he is offering. Stills photographer for many many years. $104/hr + expenses before I retired, would I have called him if you was offering $150/day for a photographer? No way in hell. A friend asked if she could use a snapshot of her for her on Facebook for $10 (MacGraw-Hill paid me $300 for a similar usage), I said sure. What's the difference? She was a friend, she wasn't making money with it, the only additional work was making her a .jpg.

At my level of sound production skill and equipment where I live, if my heath allowed me to put in ten hour days, I think $150/day +expenses would be about right. I am willing to bet that there are a lot of guys at my level (some who call themselves pro's, but we will ignor them) wonder why none of them responded to his ad?
 
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Well I can say I completely agree.

I have at times written to people listing those types of jobs and explained why I thought there rate was not likely to get them the quality they wanted. Usually because they were getting trashed and I wanted to put it in perspective so they didn't just think sound folks were crazy jerks. A number of times they admitted they hadn't really thought through that they were asking someone to bring more $ to the table than anyone else, in terms of equipment, and paying them less than everyone else.

Basically you get three groups posting low rate ads. The jerks who just don't pay anyone but themselves, no point even talking to them. Folks with no budget, you can explain and sometimes they are nice and the project is so interesting that you get sucked in anyway even though they can't pay. And the folks who just budgeted wrong. This last group you can often explain the error of their thinking and get some adjustment. Probably not to a "good" rate, they have to pull the money from other things so..., but these can turn out to be good people to know because they may ask you to help budget next time.

In any case you (people maybe. The universal "you" not the specific one) don't have to trash someone for not wanting to pay what you want to make.
 
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he, he, I had to reread that last line 3 times to realize you were not disagreeing with me. Wow!

Another point in that old thread, he did not need someone with $50K worth of equipment, he needed someone with $1k-$2K worth of equipment and a year or so of part-time experience. Sure it would be the halt leading the blind, but they could have worked it out with good communication skills.

Hey, some needed equipment I never see anyone mentioning. I have four directors' chairs. (giggle)
 
graywolf said:
Hummmm......? I just read that whole thread.
Click to expand...

No, I just wanted to quote from a single post from that thread --- which actually was unlike most of the others.

"[...]when having some Xmas drinks with a producer he commented on this exact topic and asked what ever happened to the old style of production (Shure FP33 and a 416 and perhaps one radio mic going straight into a camera). This is all he needs and can't see the the point of being charged for multi track recorders, 6 radio mics, time code etc etc etc.[...]"

I didn't mean to import that whole discussion into here.
 
combatentropy said:
No, I just wanted to quote from a single post from that thread --- which actually was unlike most of the others.

"[...]when having some Xmas drinks with a producer he commented on this exact topic and asked what ever happened to the old style of production (Shure FP33 and a 416 and perhaps one radio mic going straight into a camera). This is all he needs and can't see the the point of being charged for multi track recorders, 6 radio mics, time code etc etc etc.[...]"

I didn't mean to import that whole discussion into here.
Click to expand...

Sorry!
 
OK so here is the view from a camera guy who on occasion knows sound is going to be a bit much.. I can handle an interview, a vox or some ambient sound. I own an FS7 and some little cameras.

When would I hire sound and to do what.

Scenario 1)

I want to get a bit more nimble when capturing actuality.. but capture onboard sound for simple post

2 channel recorder and a 'tail' which is a lead to the camera with HF back to the sound op

A boom
A 'presenter' mic
A couple of lavs

Mainly you will swing the boom and get my levels
SD 302 or similar, ideally capable of recording backup sound

Scenario 2)

A 'meeting' 'round table' or something complex..

Here you will need to handle up to six people, record it all and synch to my t/c less cameras..

6 set of lavs
baddass recorder
TC boxes for at least two cams
boom, presenter mic
TC slate for the non TC cams and to get a visual

For 1) the dayrate would be significantly lower than (2) which would have a kit rental charge with the lavs charged per unit
 
Jim Feeley said:
Two boom mics, one for interior, one for exterior.
Interiors: Schoeps 641 or Sennheiser MKH50 (though the MKH40 and some others are worth considering.
Exteriors: Sanken CS3e (for less-controlled/street/noisy/verite situations) or Schoeps CMIT 5U or miniCMIT (for controlled situations...like narrative sets)
Click to expand...

Does having a lower end interiors microphone (such as Audix SC1HC, Oktava MK-012, or Audio Technica AT4053b?) paired with a higher end exterior microphone (i.e. CS3e/CMIT 5U/miniCMIT/DPA 4017B/etc) make sense at all?

As I'm pondering what upgrades to go for with my kit, and I'm considering going for "the best" when it comes my exterior microphone (as those situations are often the most challenging), yet settling with buying (for now...) a more mid range microphone for interior usage. Does this sound like a reasonable plan?
 
IronFilm said:
Does having a lower end interiors microphone (such as Audix SC1HC, Oktava MK-012, or Audio Technica AT4053b?) paired with a higher end exterior microphone (i.e. CS3e/CMIT 5U/miniCMIT/DPA 4017B/etc) make sense at all?

As I'm pondering what upgrades to go for with my kit, and I'm considering going for "the best" when it comes my exterior microphone (as those situations are often the most challenging), yet settling with buying (for now...) a more mid range microphone for interior usage. Does this sound like a reasonable plan?
Click to expand...


Depends. What's your bread and butter?
 
The Sanken CS-3 could be considered for both int. and ext. locales. It's not the typical interference tube design and uses multiple capsules to minimize off axis sound. The pattern is tight so it probably would not be good for an inexperienced boom op.. It would be about the same price as two mid-priced mics, a shotgun and a hyper-cardioid.
 
I have two CS-3e's, one of my audio guys has two and another (high-end commercial/film) audio guy is actually the one who talked me into getting one years ago over the Scheops "blue", when I was considering it. We use the CS-3e's inside and out(I don't own another model besides a Senn ME66/K6 thats just a leftover back-up from days gone by).

Buy good gear so you only have to buy once.
 
IronFilm said:
Does having a lower end interiors microphone (such as Audix SC1HC, Oktava MK-012, or Audio Technica AT4053b?) paired with a higher end exterior microphone (i.e. CS3e/CMIT 5U/miniCMIT/DPA 4017B/etc) make sense at all?

As I'm pondering what upgrades to go for with my kit, and I'm considering going for "the best" when it comes my exterior microphone (as those situations are often the most challenging), yet settling with buying (for now...) a more mid range microphone for interior usage. Does this sound like a reasonable plan?
Click to expand...

The idea that you need a different microphone for indoor and outdoor shoots is based on the fact that interference tube design microphones don't function as well in reverberant spaces. It's not actually true that you need a shotgun microphone for externals and a pencil style hyper for internals.

Also, in my neck of the woods everybody expects a speaker to have a hidden wireless mic attached to them.
 
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