MIDDLE MAN - a film by Brian Thesing And Finnian Riley
- Thread starter Finnian
- Start date
arielman
Well-known member
I watched this the first time and went right over my head ..I too missed the paper at the end .
Watched again then a third .
My first impression he was the owner or partner of the construction business and needed funds to finish and that is why he was depressed .
Then I heard he had a disability or something like that in a conversation.
Now that is why he is depressed , no money , no relationship and yet at the end he shows no Joy when he is approved .
My brother then explains to me that the Damage already has been done . Well to honest I never thought of that BUT it makes sense .
Really enjoyed the shots in this and the actor did a great job I thought as well.
I guess when you get older Brain farts happen more often and that is my excuse for missing the story line the first time around .
Ian
Watched again then a third .
My first impression he was the owner or partner of the construction business and needed funds to finish and that is why he was depressed .
Then I heard he had a disability or something like that in a conversation.
Now that is why he is depressed , no money , no relationship and yet at the end he shows no Joy when he is approved .
My brother then explains to me that the Damage already has been done . Well to honest I never thought of that BUT it makes sense .
Really enjoyed the shots in this and the actor did a great job I thought as well.
I guess when you get older Brain farts happen more often and that is my excuse for missing the story line the first time around .
Ian
snodart
Veteran
I almost missed this Finnian. So glad that I didn't though.
You nailed it in my book. I loved watching this. I think that many people are so used to there being the big catch or twist that when it doesn't present at the end they feel like they missed something (or wasted their time.. yikes). This style of storytelling doesn't sit well with everybody, so what can you do.
I think you did a great job of holding true to the form... I never got the impression that I was being led down the path to the typical twist or reward. I knew from the get go that I was about to see an interesting slice of this characters life.
Great job of subtly providing the information and letting the viewer piece it together. I hate comparing movies to each other, but I was thinking Lonesome Jim during the first few shots. Not a bad thing at all, just a thing.
The scene at the dinner table was great. I didn't have a problem hearing the audio, of course I was sucked up to the screen on my laptop waiting to see what was going to happen.
I'm not even going to bother to dig for minor flaws... were there any? I was too being watching!
Anyway, great work!
EDIT: Great acting too!
Finnian said:
You nailed it in my book. I loved watching this. I think that many people are so used to there being the big catch or twist that when it doesn't present at the end they feel like they missed something (or wasted their time.. yikes). This style of storytelling doesn't sit well with everybody, so what can you do.
I think you did a great job of holding true to the form... I never got the impression that I was being led down the path to the typical twist or reward. I knew from the get go that I was about to see an interesting slice of this characters life.
Great job of subtly providing the information and letting the viewer piece it together. I hate comparing movies to each other, but I was thinking Lonesome Jim during the first few shots. Not a bad thing at all, just a thing.
The scene at the dinner table was great. I didn't have a problem hearing the audio, of course I was sucked up to the screen on my laptop waiting to see what was going to happen.
I'm not even going to bother to dig for minor flaws... were there any? I was too being watching!
Anyway, great work!
EDIT: Great acting too!
Finnian
Active member
arielman said:
Man, I'm thinking I need to do a new cut and mix on this short ASAP. It seems that most people have had to watch the film multiple times to feel that they enjoyed it. This kind of viewing won't work for a one time festival screening. Now I'm wondering if we just get those dropped lines in the restaurant back and hold longer on the "approval" if that will be enough.
I know at first the mood was more important to us to share than the story points but with so many people saying almost the same thing, I'm getting really discouraged that this film is getting so lost in the shuffle.
I know you can't please all the people all the time, but there is almost unanimous consent on this one. No one wants their work to seem half-there. Especially when I think we're so close. What do you guys think, will the simple changes help feed the story beast enough to let people just enjoy the characters?
Texture
Well-known member
The most natural acting in the entire fest. The most natural dialogue. But like those before me, I still am not sure about the need for the loan. I feel like I lost some key information in the restaurant and watched "the disability" section over several times to understand the conversation.
Couldn't figure what the story was, but this is one of the few films, where I really felt I was hanging out with the characters. There was no acting, just being...
I like how you book ended the opening and closing shots. Is the end a reverse (eyes close) of the beginning (eyes open)?
Couldn't figure what the story was, but this is one of the few films, where I really felt I was hanging out with the characters. There was no acting, just being...
I like how you book ended the opening and closing shots. Is the end a reverse (eyes close) of the beginning (eyes open)?
Last edited:
Texture
Well-known member
Finnian said:
Only a couple of other entries have the professional, natural fluidity that this piece has between the characters. In most entries, the actors read their lines, but in Middleman the relationships flow like a river.
The above is a major achievement. Its the second most central production feature that very few directors seem to grasp. I'm not sure if its an acting problem, so much as a director/rehearsal time/editing problem...
The first most central value that everybody except a handful seem to consistently miss, is telling a story that is complete and coherent with a setup that makes you care enough to watch more, and a resolution that leaves the viewer satisfied that they didn't waste their time watching. So don't feel too bad, you got farther than a major portion of the entrants.
I don't think you need to extend the time of the loan shot. That was pretty clear to me. My impression was that of a survivor swimming to shore after a ship wreck. Eric's reaction to the loan approval is like, "Yea, whew, I'm not going to drown to death, but the stress of trying to survive this situation has me exhausted...." So I detected a victory here with a very natural reaction.
My first problem as a viewer is the phone conversation. Why is his truck not working? Why was the girl so upset? Who was she? Did he get a DWI? Was there some important information I was supposed to hear from the girl on the other end of the line? If so, my computer speakers couldn't tell.
My problem is that the key dialogue got a little squashed in a couple of places. The conversation out on the street in front of the bar might need to be looped. I got the impression it may have been cleaned with noise reducing software, but the location was just too noisy to really fix it right. So I missed Eric's excuse as to why he didn't drive. I'm not sure if it was important to the story.
Second, and I think other mentioned this. The restaurant conversation. Increadible, I really felt like I was at a table with friends, so darn good, but oops. Why was Eric waiting on the loan? We worked for the company? Under the table ? Huh? Was this the pivotal moment that I was supposed to set me up for the close? Why was he on disability?
See all these questions? There is real success here. You've really got me caring about Eric. You guys made me care and that's ninety percent of the battle. But I missed a couple of lines in there. Seems to be an audio problem and I see from you production shots you took great care in this so maybe that was the best the mixer had to work with... I'm not sure if I heard those lines it would clear it up for me but it seems to be.
Other questions, who are those people in the photo when he answers the phone? Why does this construction guy live right next door to the jobsite? Is this his own property that he's chosen to develop?
Still, this is one of the most professional productions in the group.
Finnian
Active member
Texture, thanks for taking the time to give such an in depth look at our film, twice! It's not lost on me how well you responded to the film, so thank you very much for that as well. It was just funny timing that I had just finished kvetching about the "plot" issue when you commented.
It's really interesting to read the questions the film raised for you while you were watching it. The reason being that we were going to have yet another sub-plot (or layer) that would have explained some of what you mentioned. I hesitate to get into what we had intended people to take away from the film, mostly because with a film like this, it is truly subjective. What the viewer takes to the story informs what they'll take away from it as well.
That being said, the layer and one of the original "textures" (to use your name) was the idea of progress in the form of gentrification. It has roots in all of the elements of the setting; family, friends, neighborhood. We wanted to show more about how he no longer fit into his own life because things around him had progressed so much, but he hadn't.
This was to be told visually and we have some more footage to play with but the time constraints kept us from going the distance on this point. Now, that may not be such a bad thing. I'm not sure that the current structure doesn't already hint at this, it's just not as much of a piece of commentary as it is a story about his loneliness in his over-populated life. Plus, it doesn't add anything to an understanding of the loan approval.
On that point, I just think it means whatever you want it to mean. This was to be more of a mirror than a picture. We were getting a lot of feedback from folks about the script that they thought the film was about them in some way. I loved that idea and ran with it when we shot the piece. Eric is all of us at one point or another in our lives. Stuck. Maybe because of circumstance or illness or depression, it really doesn't matter why. He's just supposed to remind us of a place to avoid. He's a detour sign.
That, my friends, is all I can say about it until we tweak the technical issues. If anyone wants to, they can read a copy of the scenes with funky dialogue here:
http://maccool.net/middleman/MiddleManExcerpt1.pdf
Thanks again for all of the comments, they're really helping us refine how to make this and future films better. I love this board.
It's really interesting to read the questions the film raised for you while you were watching it. The reason being that we were going to have yet another sub-plot (or layer) that would have explained some of what you mentioned. I hesitate to get into what we had intended people to take away from the film, mostly because with a film like this, it is truly subjective. What the viewer takes to the story informs what they'll take away from it as well.
That being said, the layer and one of the original "textures" (to use your name) was the idea of progress in the form of gentrification. It has roots in all of the elements of the setting; family, friends, neighborhood. We wanted to show more about how he no longer fit into his own life because things around him had progressed so much, but he hadn't.
This was to be told visually and we have some more footage to play with but the time constraints kept us from going the distance on this point. Now, that may not be such a bad thing. I'm not sure that the current structure doesn't already hint at this, it's just not as much of a piece of commentary as it is a story about his loneliness in his over-populated life. Plus, it doesn't add anything to an understanding of the loan approval.
On that point, I just think it means whatever you want it to mean. This was to be more of a mirror than a picture. We were getting a lot of feedback from folks about the script that they thought the film was about them in some way. I loved that idea and ran with it when we shot the piece. Eric is all of us at one point or another in our lives. Stuck. Maybe because of circumstance or illness or depression, it really doesn't matter why. He's just supposed to remind us of a place to avoid. He's a detour sign.
That, my friends, is all I can say about it until we tweak the technical issues. If anyone wants to, they can read a copy of the scenes with funky dialogue here:
http://maccool.net/middleman/MiddleManExcerpt1.pdf
Thanks again for all of the comments, they're really helping us refine how to make this and future films better. I love this board.
arielman
Well-known member
Finnian said:
Hi Finnian
I'm not sure why some hear the dialog in the restaurant and others do not . Just maybe it might be the system we listen to it on .
I know when My Brother and I did DRACO for the Horror fest , I noticed some lines were hard to hear and yet when played on anther computer or TV you could hear those lines so it could just be the sound system we have ..
AS for holding on the letter of approval longer I don't think that's why I missed it . I did get the idea of depression though . I think it may have been in the beginning where I fully didn't get it , I am no expert so I don't want to give any advice on how to fix it as I feel you were really close .
It is funny on how some can get a story line right away and others cannot like myself .
So if you make the story for me to understand , others may not ...Hell even Hollywood screws up so please don't feel discourage at all .
Hell I took Draco into work and Had some crew members watch it for a review and asked for their Honest opinion . Out of 7 guys all but 2 didn't get it the beginning or the story sooo I had the rest explain it to them just to see if they really did get it and they did .
But once in the contest many didn't get the story line ..so in the end you can't
please everyone.
Ian
Hey man, I only watched your film once and I really liked it. Definitely in my top 5. Something about it resonated with me. I could relate to the main character and you pulled off that dinner scene perfect in my eyes. So many times I have been like that guy and just wanted to get the heck out of there and not deal with all the conversation bs. Nice camera work and not too flashy where I was noticing all the shots and angles just cool and kept me in the story. Music went well too. No weak points from my point of view. Just a great slice of life piece. Thanks for taking the time to make it a share it with us.
Greg
Greg
Since your considering your choices, I thought I would chime in. I really liked this film. It was beautifully shot and the stuff in the restaurant, the awkwardness, plays so well. Capturing that moment was brilliant. your actresses shine in small roles and the acting in general was realistic.
I did have some trouble hearing the dialogue, the beginning of the scene at the table. Wasn't sure who the women was he was talking to on the phone. First I was thinking it was him in the pic, and his wife was back east so it was her on the call, and then the way he says "mom" I was wondering if it was his sister. I get the being stressed and surly so I wasn't wondering why he was acting the way he was.
All and all, this was a great effort and one I will keep on the desktop. looking forward to seeing more of your work
I did have some trouble hearing the dialogue, the beginning of the scene at the table. Wasn't sure who the women was he was talking to on the phone. First I was thinking it was him in the pic, and his wife was back east so it was her on the call, and then the way he says "mom" I was wondering if it was his sister. I get the being stressed and surly so I wasn't wondering why he was acting the way he was.
All and all, this was a great effort and one I will keep on the desktop. looking forward to seeing more of your work
Cynic821
Carbonite Member
10th review:
This started so much better than the previously watched ones...oh man it was a relief, like fresh air, then the music slowed down and disappeared and i was brought back into the harsh land that is how i think of most of these entries. Boring self fullfilling shots meant to be artistic? im not sure that the decision of their use is even explainable.
Acting was better than most, not a pro, but passable atleast, a nice escape from the norm. I did not believe this guy as a construction worker though. The clothes didnt fit, nor the unshaven look. Ive been around and know far too many trades man, and that being, i didnt respect this guy as a worker since he reeked of scab. The group acting was good, but again i just couldnt feel for the main character.
I also felt again this suffered from the lack of a reason to watch other than obligation. Audio suffered mid way though, and the resteraunt felt like an applebees commercial, the music was generic and just didnt fit imo.
the facial expressions on eric were better though. but once he left, i just felt like again we have to watch more unneccessary shots filling time to reach the 6 min mark. i couldnt help but feel like this in most of the shorts, no matter how i approached them. stuff just took too long to develop and just like they tried to be artsy instead of give me new info a reason to keep watching.
well thats it.
maybe i should give a disclaimer before i get warned? ( i had to stop reviewing horrorfest because i wasnt being that positive, this is how i feel and i guess ill just post until im stopped again)
This started so much better than the previously watched ones...oh man it was a relief, like fresh air, then the music slowed down and disappeared and i was brought back into the harsh land that is how i think of most of these entries. Boring self fullfilling shots meant to be artistic? im not sure that the decision of their use is even explainable.
Acting was better than most, not a pro, but passable atleast, a nice escape from the norm. I did not believe this guy as a construction worker though. The clothes didnt fit, nor the unshaven look. Ive been around and know far too many trades man, and that being, i didnt respect this guy as a worker since he reeked of scab. The group acting was good, but again i just couldnt feel for the main character.
I also felt again this suffered from the lack of a reason to watch other than obligation. Audio suffered mid way though, and the resteraunt felt like an applebees commercial, the music was generic and just didnt fit imo.
the facial expressions on eric were better though. but once he left, i just felt like again we have to watch more unneccessary shots filling time to reach the 6 min mark. i couldnt help but feel like this in most of the shorts, no matter how i approached them. stuff just took too long to develop and just like they tried to be artsy instead of give me new info a reason to keep watching.
well thats it.
maybe i should give a disclaimer before i get warned? ( i had to stop reviewing horrorfest because i wasnt being that positive, this is how i feel and i guess ill just post until im stopped again)
Finnian
Active member
Thanks Jazz Dog, bosindy and Cynic821 for watching and commenting!
Since things seem to be winding down at this point, I'd just like to say thank you to everyone who took the time to watch and comment on our film. We enjoyed sharing this project and the process making it with everybody. I also am glad to see such dedicated group of independent filmmakers organize and support a festival like this. Motivation to create something is a wonderful gift indeed.
Since things seem to be winding down at this point, I'd just like to say thank you to everyone who took the time to watch and comment on our film. We enjoyed sharing this project and the process making it with everybody. I also am glad to see such dedicated group of independent filmmakers organize and support a festival like this. Motivation to create something is a wonderful gift indeed.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Loved the score -- so fresh, and not overpowering/heavy-handed like many films had. And your lead actor would win my "best actor" vote, if we had one. Nice job!
i really enjoyed this film. i thought the acting was great, and the lead did a terrific job. the pacing and mood really made it all feel like a little slice out of real life. i could harmonize with this guy and really feel this peice. overall it just really stood out in my mind amongst the many entries. thanks for sharing it.
Jared Meyer
Veteran
Congratulations man! Glad you placed, you really deserved it.
Tom Marshall
Actor!!!!!!
Hey Finnian, congratulations on your win! :beer: