I've been running a C100 on a gimbal. Mostly, I use it to capture b-roll for news stories or I might sometimes use it follow reporters doing a walking interview. I've have a AT4073b mic on the camera to capture ambiance outside and an Audix SCX1 hyper for indoors. I switch to dual system recorder/wireless wireless for walk and talks. I was wondering if a mid-side mic config would work better to capture stereo ambiance that could be converted to mono as needed. Is there any downside to this kind of pickup for this application? Seems like it could be great for scenes where there's a lot going on. I shot a robotics competition once and all of the teams worked in a big open hall with interesting sounds coming from all around as you walked through the place. I know it's not true stereo but seems like it's a nice quick compromise that can offer some sound dimension. Thanks.
Mid-side mic config for gimbal
- Thread starter DNN
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GaryNattrass
Veteran
I always use M/S mics for stereo recording for video as it does give the advantage that the M capsule is always pointing at the action.
I also use them for off camera stereo recording and for many years as a dubbing mixer in film and TV used an M/S mic with a cheap and cheerful minidisc recorder
My stereo mics are both from Sony and I have the ECM-MS907 and two of the ECM-MS957.
I also use them for off camera stereo recording and for many years as a dubbing mixer in film and TV used an M/S mic with a cheap and cheerful minidisc recorder
My stereo mics are both from Sony and I have the ECM-MS907 and two of the ECM-MS957.
Bruce Watson
Veteran
First things first. Mid-side (M/S or just MS) is "true stereo". Alan Blumlein of British EMI invented M/S in the 1930s IIRC, and people have been using it to record music, environmental sounds, etc. ever since.
The problem that I have with what you are describing (stereo mic on camera) is two fold. First, the camera position is optimized for video, and that position is almost never a good position for recording sound. Second, cameras tend to move (yours is on a gimbal so I'm thinking you're going to be moving it), and audience members tend to not like stereo fields that move. Indeed, it can make some of them "sea sick". It's disconcerting and distracting.
IMHO, if you must put a mic on a camera, it should be a single mono mic.
Noiz2
Sound Ninja
As Bruce said MS is no less "true stereo" than any other stereo set up.
I also agree with the issues of moving stereo fields. If your locked down then maybe.
I don't think it's a good idea to try and "pick up" ambiences while shooting, but I'm coming from a narrative film perspective and you are doing something other so maybe it works for you.
I personally am not a big fan of MS. But really only from a logistics point. XY you can throw in and it plays, libraries are easy to search and play and XY is just as flexible as MS, in fact you can convert from one to the other and back. With MS you have to convert it, always. It's not the big PITA it used to be since most things have software conversion built in.
I know a lot of radio folks who use MS a lot. For them the big plus is they are going to use the M as their dialog etc. track but they are recording in stereo all the time so nothing has to change to pick up ambiences and other stuff and if, as sometimes happens when you can't control the shoot, someone says something important off mic the S probably got a usable signal. So it serves two useful functions and makes life simpler.
XY can mostly do the same things but it is not going to have as wide a coverage, so not as useful for the off mic stuff. And while you can "recover" the center, the center is not on axis if either capsule. The "fix" for that is to use the rig at an angle so one mic is on axis with your speaker but that also has some drawbacks. First it looks strange and that can distract non professional talent and your side coverage is very one sided.
So for your use, other than the moving stereo part, a MS mic is probably the better choice.
BTW a lot of cheap stereo mics are MS and then do the conversion in mic and output a XY signal.
I also agree with the issues of moving stereo fields. If your locked down then maybe.
I don't think it's a good idea to try and "pick up" ambiences while shooting, but I'm coming from a narrative film perspective and you are doing something other so maybe it works for you.
I personally am not a big fan of MS. But really only from a logistics point. XY you can throw in and it plays, libraries are easy to search and play and XY is just as flexible as MS, in fact you can convert from one to the other and back. With MS you have to convert it, always. It's not the big PITA it used to be since most things have software conversion built in.
I know a lot of radio folks who use MS a lot. For them the big plus is they are going to use the M as their dialog etc. track but they are recording in stereo all the time so nothing has to change to pick up ambiences and other stuff and if, as sometimes happens when you can't control the shoot, someone says something important off mic the S probably got a usable signal. So it serves two useful functions and makes life simpler.
XY can mostly do the same things but it is not going to have as wide a coverage, so not as useful for the off mic stuff. And while you can "recover" the center, the center is not on axis if either capsule. The "fix" for that is to use the rig at an angle so one mic is on axis with your speaker but that also has some drawbacks. First it looks strange and that can distract non professional talent and your side coverage is very one sided.
So for your use, other than the moving stereo part, a MS mic is probably the better choice.
BTW a lot of cheap stereo mics are MS and then do the conversion in mic and output a XY signal.
GaryNattrass
Veteran
Advantage with the Sony mics and others is that they output an L/R signal so are a little more convenient, you can still play with the image width though on the mic or using an M/S plug in such as BX Solo.