OTHER: Micro-P2 successor?

Jarek Zabczynski

Jarek Zabczynski

Veteran
Any rumblings on what's next in the 1/3 chip handheld world? I will be looking to upgrade both my HVX-200s soon and at this point the HPX-250, while a decent camera, seems like the wrong thing to do, almost like Panasonic doesn't know where to take this part of the market. I've heard nothing about the successor, then again I don't pay as much attention to rumor sites as I used to.
 
I don´t see why there should be any more 1/3" cameras coming.
Even seeing fullframe at 1.4 as the fad that it is (was?), larger sensors just make sense.
For 1/3" the 250 probably is as good as it can get. Solid design, solid wide range manual lens, solid codec, solid recording media. You could ad higher frame rates (Varicam!), but that´s it.
What most people would care for in this market segment is better low light performance and a higher DR. Both can easily achieved by making the sensor bigger.
I believe 2/3" or 1" would be perfect and I guess the only reason for lower end pro cameras still having 1/3" is to protect the still standard 2/3" in regular ENG style cameras.
A 2/3" HPX250 style camera would slash some serious ENG camera sales...
Panasonic is in that strange place, having a low cost / low end larger sensor prosumer camcorder (AF100) and high cost / high end broadcast cameras.
They don´t give a rats fart about what I think, but I think they should merge the low end (HPX250 with AF100) and enter the F5/C300 segment with another model.
But chances are we just get a microP2 HPX-250A in the end...
 
I guess it just seems like the HPX-250 is dead in the water with Micro-P2 going forward. The HVX-200s have served me well, really well. They are probably the longest owned cameras I've had. I want to make sure the next pair I get has the same run. Just a bit unclear where Panasonic is heading. I've gone RED last year and now upgrading to Epic for all my film and commercial work, but I still use my HVXs for live and event work. They still work well, just not very strong in the resolution department. With 4k starting to come into the market from all directions now, I'm a bit hesitant about investing into 1080p only cameras. I definitely want something in the compact ENG variety, just not convinced if the HPX-250 is a smart choice at this time. Kinda waiting to hear what the successor will be, but news is scarce on that front. I'm also not convinced Panny knows where to go from here.
 
Why would the HPX250 be considered dead in the water? Just get a MicroP2 adapter (they're available today) and you can use it for many years in the future.
 
I have to see at least 3-5 major networks actually broadcasting in real 4K and my home set top box has real 4K output to make the move to all 4K. Unless I shoot content that is priceless for the next few decades, it's a huge risk with minimal return on investment otherwise. By then, 2nd or 3rd gen 4K cams will be cheaper and better.

Another issue is downconversion quality via software or hardware. Converting 1080p to 480i via software (Adobe and Apple) is disappointing. It's soft. It also has quite a few jagged artifacts that is not found on expensive real time scaler (Snell & Wilcox, $25K) for example. So a 4K down to 1080i or 480i via software encoding will likely to have the same fate.
 
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Barry_Green said:
Why would the HPX250 be considered dead in the water? Just get a MicroP2 adapter (they're available today) and you can use it for many years in the future.
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Just meaning that it's probably the last generation P2 camcorder of this type that will be full size P2, it may have limitations as the MicroP2 format matures.
 
Jarek Zabczynski said:
Just meaning that it's probably the last generation P2 camcorder of this type that will be full size P2, it may have limitations as the MicroP2 format matures.
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I get you, but I think MicroP2 is as mature as it can be. I basically see it as a shrunk down P2 card and it´s biggest advantage probably will be offloading through inexpensive card readers (or am I wrong, Barry?)

Anyways, what is your main outlet for your event work? Fact is I haven´t burned a DVD for ages, everything goes straight to the WWW or as a file to the companies backup solution.
BluRay? What´s that?
Point is: As long as your clients are happy with the HVX, why upgrade? Also, depending on what you consider "event work", DSLRs might be the better choice, simply because of low light performance and cheap recording media. As you said, you still got your RED when serious image manipulation is called for in post.
 
Mainly concerts and other events that need long record times and powered zoom lens. Not to mention audio inputs and controls, video out etc...Completely rules out DSLRs, not that I've ever liked the image quality they produce to begin with nor do they look professional. Also some corporate stuff that gets shown in large venues.

While clients don't know better, I do. I'm a performer myself and I like to have my performances recorded from time to time, personally, I want something sharper than the HVX...just not sure if this is the right time to step up.

The DVX-100, was a BIG DEAL when it was released. As was the HVX-200 and even HPX-170 to an extent. The HPX-250 was a bit quiet and meh. Just seems like they cut corners on it and rushed it out the door just to get it done. I want that flagship Panasonic camcorder, and this doesn't seem like that.
 
Spartacus said:
I basically see it as a shrunk down P2 card and it´s biggest advantage probably will be offloading through inexpensive card readers (or am I wrong, Barry?)
Click to expand...
Well, that's AN advantage, obviously; you can actually offload them in a regular SDXC card slot even, although you won't get full speed, but that's as cheap as it gets. The other advantages are that they'll be a lot less expensive per GB than the full-size P2 cards, and they're much faster, so they can support higher data rates.
 
I do not see 4K being the big impact that some are claiming. It is already hard enough to get cable providers to give you a decent 1080i or p picture without digital noise, and I am guessing that the bandwidth needs will increase despite the newer compression standards. I see no reason to predict that the HPX-250 will become obsolete. As long as it does what we need it to, then it is not obsolete. The composition , quality of program, lighting, and decent sound transcend the equipment.

Of course, I may change my mind when I see the first 4k home broadcast, then again, as my eyes get worse, who knows. I am looking forward to my micro P2 adapter and card. If I could see a few upgrades on the 250, I would like to have the ability to dial in the white balance myself.
 
i brought up the question of why no 2/3" prosumer cams in another thread and someone said it was cause of the lenses. you would have to have a huge lens for that sensor size to get the 13x, or 22x ranges were used to with hpx, ac160, etc. thats why the original 2/3" red scarlett plan was only for an 8x fixed zoom.
 
Spartacus said:
Even seeing fullframe at 1.4 as the fad that it is (was?), larger sensors just make sense.
Click to expand...
But do they make sense?

If shallow depth of field is an important concern, then the answer must be yes.

But it comes at a price. Larger sensors mean larger lenses (assuming all else - zoom range, max aperture etc - equal), and larger tends to mean bigger, heavier and a lot more expensive.

Consequently, for the market that wants a smaller size camera fairly cheaply - but is not prepared to sacrifice zoom range etc - large sensor is not the way to go, especially since it effectively means single chip. (And for any given size, a single chip will always be at a disadvantage compared to three chip.)

Current favourite seems to be the PMW200, mainly because of it's 1/2" chips. They are seen to offer significant advantages over comparable 1/3", whilst it's still possible to get a decent zoom range in a reasonable size package.

The XF305 used to be favourite over here, mainly because of offering a full broadcast spec codec unlike the EX1. Matters have swung heavily back to Sony with the combination of the 1/2" sensors and the 50Mbs codec.
 
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