Can anyone recommend a good mic to use for this video shoot: group of 20 sitting in a circle (no table) in a medium size conference room - one main speaker and other's chiming in as needed. Plan to have a wirless lavalier on the main speaker but what mic will be the best for the other's? The camera will be far off in the corner so thinking I need a boundary mic on the floor or on a small table in the middle of the group. Thanks!
Mic recommendation for group of 20 sitting in a circle(no table)
- Thread starter morgt0
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Allan Black
Veteran
Depends on how important the video is. If it's the prime focus, we found the best layout was 5 rows of 4 seated quarter circle, ala classroom layout with the moderator at the front.
A lav on the mod (left ch) and a shotgun on a boom (right chan.) through a mixer to the cameras and a separate audio recorder. Cam at the back shooting the mod and we had a cam at the front for the group. Keeps visual interest alive longer.
20 people seated in a full circle encourages people to speak and watch each other but makes indefinate video for its audience. The quarter circle is easier to dress, mic, light, hear and watch. We put the low talkers at the front.
If your video is just a log of the event, the lav and boundary mic should do it, damp the room down well to kill echoes.
Cheers.
A lav on the mod (left ch) and a shotgun on a boom (right chan.) through a mixer to the cameras and a separate audio recorder. Cam at the back shooting the mod and we had a cam at the front for the group. Keeps visual interest alive longer.
20 people seated in a full circle encourages people to speak and watch each other but makes indefinate video for its audience. The quarter circle is easier to dress, mic, light, hear and watch. We put the low talkers at the front.
If your video is just a log of the event, the lav and boundary mic should do it, damp the room down well to kill echoes.
Cheers.
Doc Bernard
Indie Arms Member
If you are going to use boundary mikes for a circle group (good idea, but might sound too "roomy") use at least two of them, most boundary mikes are not omni-directional . Back to back and in the center of the circle. Your 90 degree off axis might end up being a bit low in level, but unless you are going to have an interview mic to hand around, this might be the cheapest option. And also watch out for phase issues in the off axis.
That is a very interesting question. You can run 2 omnis, but for speech you get a lot of extras with omnis, rumble, etc, of course you can remove that in post. I have used the following:
1. 2 subcardioids in wide ORTF (120 degress) with the backs facing the main speaker, spot mike on the speaker.
2. 4 cardioids in double ORFT narrow (90 degrees) with one of the on axis at the speaker with a spot on the speaker if you wish
3. 4 figure of 8 in double blumelein with spot if you wish. Why figure of eight? If you have a reflective floor or table and/or a low ceiling.
4. Two omnis and a spot.
5. MS pair with custom decoding and a spot or spots for the null created by the decoding algorithm. This allows you to emphasise certain speakers flexibly in post.
You can of course give everyone their own mic, which is what I usually wind up doing. I use hypercardioids. I would be nice to go wireless, but I don't have that many wireless mikes if it is a big group.
1. 2 subcardioids in wide ORTF (120 degress) with the backs facing the main speaker, spot mike on the speaker.
2. 4 cardioids in double ORFT narrow (90 degrees) with one of the on axis at the speaker with a spot on the speaker if you wish
3. 4 figure of 8 in double blumelein with spot if you wish. Why figure of eight? If you have a reflective floor or table and/or a low ceiling.
4. Two omnis and a spot.
5. MS pair with custom decoding and a spot or spots for the null created by the decoding algorithm. This allows you to emphasise certain speakers flexibly in post.
You can of course give everyone their own mic, which is what I usually wind up doing. I use hypercardioids. I would be nice to go wireless, but I don't have that many wireless mikes if it is a big group.
Doc Bernard
Indie Arms Member
OMG! Someone else who knows what ORTF is!! The 8's will need to be double capsule condensors, rather than any 8. A ribbon won't work. (Phase cancellation issues)
The prob is the speaker could be anyone in the circle, turning the axis to "follow" is going to be a prob, without a good mixer on the job.
An MS is out of the question, for not only the above reason, but the complexity of setting one up in the field without hauling a computer around. That is a pretty involved set up, otherwise to do it right.
Heck, a Decca Tree would work, just aim everything "out", and fly in the center.
The prob is the speaker could be anyone in the circle, turning the axis to "follow" is going to be a prob, without a good mixer on the job.
An MS is out of the question, for not only the above reason, but the complexity of setting one up in the field without hauling a computer around. That is a pretty involved set up, otherwise to do it right.
Heck, a Decca Tree would work, just aim everything "out", and fly in the center.
Rippie
Veteran
a pzm is going to be way too messy of a solution. You'll have a very ambient recording, and totally at the mercy of the room ambience. (hope its not hot and they want the a/c on)
Not knowing what you're going for visually and what kind of "event" this is..
You pretty much have 2 solutions to keep it simple.
1. Have a boom op
2. pass around a couple wireless stick mics.
Have the director/producer talk to the crowd before hand asking them
to wait till the microphone is in front of them to speak.
Its a pretty common thing to ask and usually 95% of the people end up doing it.
When I do sports pressers..
usually have 2 guys maning the mic's and they look for who wants to speak
and hands them the mic. Makes life for the sound guy a snap.
Not usually a problem keeping the guys out of frame because they are
handing the mic's off well before you cut to the crowd.
If that doesnt work for your situation, a boom mic with some reach
will do the trick nicely.
Tough to be more specific without more details.
I just spec'ed out a small job like this a couple days ago..
12 people at a long table speaking to the crowd.
My solution is going with RE-50's across the table
being fed into my o1v96 board..iso outs and mix to a 788T recorder
mix to cameras.
Camera's jammed on rec run.
Master being cam 1.
Issue is, those 12 people might end up going mobile later in the day.. (walk an talks) ..so that'll be an entirely different approach. (which i really hope doesn't happen)
I've had good results recording large boardroom groups using a bunch of these mics:
Samson CM11B Omnidirectional Boundary Mic
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/330988-REG/Samson_SACM11B_CM11B_Boundary_Microphone.html
They sound quite good and are effective to about a 4 foot radius of each mic. The supplied mini-xlr cable is junk, so I had TrewAudio make me up a few replacement ones. I also own a Sennheiser e912 boundary mic, and I was surprised to find these cheap Samsons produced better sound.
If possible, I would treat the room you are going to film in, to try to elminate unwanted ambient sounds. ( covering air-conditioning vents is a huge improvement )
Samson CM11B Omnidirectional Boundary Mic
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/330988-REG/Samson_SACM11B_CM11B_Boundary_Microphone.html
They sound quite good and are effective to about a 4 foot radius of each mic. The supplied mini-xlr cable is junk, so I had TrewAudio make me up a few replacement ones. I also own a Sennheiser e912 boundary mic, and I was surprised to find these cheap Samsons produced better sound.
If possible, I would treat the room you are going to film in, to try to elminate unwanted ambient sounds. ( covering air-conditioning vents is a huge improvement )
Thanks for all the idea everyone - much appreciated. Unfortunately this is a church group event and they do not like obtrusive AV equipment - they want us hid in the background!! So, I think a wireless mic to pass around and a lavalier for the main speaker is probably the cheapest, easiest and least obtrusive way - thanks again for your help!
Rippie
Veteran
with 20 people I'd try to at least get 2 stick mic's. The more the better.