Mic extension cable between Deity D3 Pro and Terra 4K - quality loss?

Anonomatos

Anonomatos

Member
Hi folks,
I'm in the process of a mic-shuffle (as in: selling off some). I have too many bits and pieces and I want a simple run and gun setup. I've ordered a Deity D3 Pro mic as it should check many boxes.

I want it to record straight to my Zoom H1.
OR, alternatively:
I want to run a 3 (or 6) meter cable from the Deity D3 Pro straight to my Kinefinity Terra 4K.

My question is this:
Both the Deity D3 Pro and the Terra 4K take 3.5mm TR(R)S signal. (The mic is powered by it's own battery.) Will there be noticable quality loss when I run a couple of meters of cable between the two? Granted I use high quality cables (copper) and use Neutrik or Rean plugs?

Hope someone can chime in, thanks!!
 
Not particularly. But honestly how high is your bar? Your using a $80 recorder with a $5,000 camera... And you want to put a "video mic" on it. So over all your audio is aiming at a pretty low standard. I mean it can all work and I'm not a "if you don't pay $$$$ it's going to be trash" kind of person but you have picked pretty much bottom of probably acceptable sound gear to pair with a much higher end camera so your limit is probably with gear not a cable. Basically VHS sound with 4K picture.

As to the cable. The problems that might come up are that 3.5mm connections are pretty fragile. They don't take much in the way of abuse before they fail. With an on camera mic you don't have much danger but the minute you put a few meters of cable between them you open up a lot of chances for snaggs etc and one good yank and you can break the jack on most devices. Only pretty robust "pro" gear has the 3.5mm bolted to the case with wires to the electronics, pretty much every consumer/ prosumer gear has the jack soldered to the circuit board, so that repair can be quite pricey. So secure the cable with a nice loop to the jack so you don't put any strain on the jack.

Second it's an un balanced mic run. That is not always a problem but it can be if there is a strong RF in the area, or the cable gets close to an AC line, or a computer/laptop/tablet/phone/ etc.

It won't be an always problem but it will be an always possible problem. Balanced runs are much less susceptible to random RF and such. So this really depends on your location and where you are working. It could be a PITA or it might never be an issue, the odds are that it won't be an issue most of the time.

In terms of "quality" a cable run of a couple of meters on it's own should not be a problem, other than what I mentioned above.
 
You can make this work, and for many applications, the audience will not be able to tell. But I've been burned several times by RF and hum on long unbalanced lines, and once lost a day of shooting because a 3.5mm plug broke off inside the input jack on my 3/4" VCR (yeah, that long ago). It adds one more thing you need to worry about in any shooting situation, and who needs more potential points of failure in their setup? These days, I even dislike the six inches of unbalanced cable between my wireless mic receivers and camera inputs (but have to live with them for the most part). You will always be severely limited in the length of your mic cable runs using unbalanced connections. I've run XLR mic cables over 200 meters a few times with no problems.

You've invested in a decent camera - can your budget stretch enough for something like a Rode NTG2 (NTG3 is better but requires phantom power) and a few balanced mic cables?

- Greg
 
Thanks for chiming in, folks!

I've just sold an NTG3 and a Zoom H5. And I'm selling my JuicedLink RM222 and Rode Videomic Pro soon.
It was all too much stuff to carry around and think about. For each shoot I needed a different setup.

So I'm simplifying and want to work with just 1 mic that doesn't require phantom power. The Deity D3 Pro is a pretty decent mic.
I'm understanding the unbalanced line is the problem. So using a recorder and a boom pole (i.e. shorter cable, not dangling) should help to minimize interference. Right?
 
Anonomatos said:
... So using a recorder and a boom pole (i.e. shorter cable, not dangling) should help to minimize interference. Right?
Click to expand...

Yes, that will alleviate most of the issues with the unbalance 3.5mm setup. I'm with Noiz on the fragility of 3.5mm. I had to throw out a Tascam recorder simply because I moved my recording equipment from one room to the other and in doing so, the 3.5mm headphone jack on the Tascam broke. It was not repairable. That made me really paranoid about 3.5mm. It has no mechanical strain relief. They just solder it directly to the PCB.
 
So I'm guessing your shooting with just one lens, handheld and available light?

Not really sure about the logic in selling a Rode Video Mic Pro and then buying a (arguably) lower end version?

I think you need to explain what and how you are shooting because it sounds like a mismash.
For most purposes I can think of it sounds like you are heading in the wrong direction. I am going to assume that that is because I haven't thought of your situation.

As in all things everything is a trade off. Depending on what you are shooting you may be making good tradeoffs but?

3.5mm is not a killer, I use it all the time for some things, the tradeoff is fragility and dependability (very few things have locking 3.5mm connectors and they pull out if you look at them wrong).

Also note that you may not be able to use a regular 3.5mm TRS cable, the Deity uses a TRRS cable. But it does work with some cameras that use TRS so? But I would do a test because finding a long TRRS 3.5mm cable might be a challenge.
 
Paul F said:
... That made me really paranoid about 3.5mm. It has no mechanical strain relief. They just solder it directly to the PCB.
Click to expand...

That is generally true but some boxes like the MixPre have chassis mount 3.5mm jacks that don't have this problem.
 
Things like that are just underappreciated and not talked about when discussing features and value. I tossed a whole recorder because of a detail like that. The old 'get what you pay for' was never more clear to me then that day.
 
I also do not understand the logic of selling a Rode Video Mic Pro for another mic with an unbalanced mini-plug.

On some pieces of gear, I use a low-profile right-angle mini-plug which less likely to get hit and stress the jack and plug. It can also be taped down easily and more securely. Markertek.com sells these for $1 ea. Markertek also has a custom cable shop for those who cannot DIY.
3.5mm RA plug. (only).jpg
 
Allright folks, time to clear some things up!

First of all, I'm mostly working in small crews. I do doc work, 48HFP's, music videos, short fiction, et cetera. Basically anything except events and wedding. All low budget indie stuff. Most of the times the audio is either 1) not needed (in case of a music video, for example) OR 2) there's a sound guy and I only record scratch audio.

In some scenarios I needed a microphone solution. When I'm shooting talking heads, for example. So I used the Rode Videomic Pro that way but HELL it's flimsy. Every time the rubber bands came loose. Cable is very very thin. Et cetera. Other times (when I had someone booming, for example) I used a Juicedlink or Zoom H5 with my NTG3. But most of the time I was losing so much time messing with cables.

Then I realized I need a super simple and lightweight setup that I can always carry with me in case I do need proper sound. So then the Deity D3 Pro came along and I was like "hmmmm, interesting". Considering the reviews the sound is pretty decent. Cable is DETACHABLE (!) and it has a super solid rycote shock mount. I can plug it straight into the Terra, a rented Zoom recorder, or even my iPhone.

The Deity D3 Pro REALLY sounds like an ideal solution to me, so I was just asking about the cable. Not thinking I would stir so much. But thanks all for chiming in :)
 
Rick R said:
... On some pieces of gear, I use a low-profile right-angle mini-plug which less likely to get hit and stress the jack and plug.
Click to expand...

Yes, this works very well. I learned this from my PC, which uses a right angle for power. If it gets pulled, it just pops; no worries. I've been using that on my F8 headphones and subout. I learned it too late for the Tascam.

I like the taping down idea.
 
Anonomatos said:
...so I was just asking about the cable.
Click to expand...

OK then. An unbalanced cable like you propose is literally an antenna. Signal sources can be anything from radio transmissions from local police and ER channels, TV stations, noise from fluorescent lights, etc. In general, the shorter it is, the better. But even a 10cm unbalanced cable can pickup extraneous signals.

Your 3.5mm stereo plugs are likewise susceptible to external RFI. And they are susceptible to getting yanked out, and damaged. Damaging the receptacles in the equipment typically means damaged circuit boards, which is an expensive and time consuming repair.

That said, using unbalanced cables with 3.5mm stereo plugs will work most of the time. But when it doesn't work, you're going to have a heck of a time dealing with it. You'll have to come up with plans and explanations as to why your audio is corrupted and what you can do about it. Because that's just going to happen. Maybe not today. Maybe not tomorrow. But it is going to happen.

All that said, these problems and more were why balanced XLR cables came to be used by pros decades ago. Along with phantom powering of microphones, it's a tried and proven technology. But you don't have to learn from those who came before you if you don't want to.

So, use what you want, and good luck with it. Just don't ever say that you weren't warned.
 
Anonomatos said:
Allright folks, time to clear some things up!

First of all, I'm mostly working in small crews. I do doc work, 48HFP's, music videos, short fiction, et cetera. Basically anything except events and wedding. All low budget indie stuff. Most of the times the audio is either 1) not needed (in case of a music video, for example) OR 2) there's a sound guy and I only record scratch audio.

In some scenarios I needed a microphone solution. When I'm shooting talking heads, for example. So I used the Rode Videomic Pro that way but HELL it's flimsy. Every time the rubber bands came loose. Cable is very very thin. Et cetera. Other times (when I had someone booming, for example) I used a Juicedlink or Zoom H5 with my NTG3. But most of the time I was losing so much time messing with cables.

Then I realized I need a super simple and lightweight setup that I can always carry with me in case I do need proper sound. So then the Deity D3 Pro came along and I was like "hmmmm, interesting". Considering the reviews the sound is pretty decent. Cable is DETACHABLE (!) and it has a super solid rycote shock mount. I can plug it straight into the Terra, a rented Zoom recorder, or even my iPhone.

The Deity D3 Pro REALLY sounds like an ideal solution to me, so I was just asking about the cable. Not thinking I would stir so much. But thanks all for chiming in :)
Click to expand...

Thanks for clearing that up.

For all those "don't need decent sound" gigs your set. I have an even cheaper "video mic" that I stick on my DSLR for exactly those situations.

For when you "need proper sound", it gets sketchier. The Deity may sound "decent", but probably most of the people saying that are looking at a wider range than you are assuming or they are not sound people and it is just better than the really crappy mics they have used. The Takstar is "decent" and a LOT better than the built in mic but it is not close to acceptable for a dialog mic. The issues with getting decent sound with your proposed set up starts at the mic, may get compounded by the unbalanced cable run, and finishes with the H1. For a quick sound grabber the H1 is very convenient and sounds OKish. But it's mic preamp is not very good, and it's a handheld with a tiny display and inconvenient controls.
The mic is probably OK for certain situations but it is essentially a hyper, so you are not going to get the isolation of a shotgun, which you are likely to need out doors. But for things like the 48HFP it could be OK. The cable is detachable, but it comes out the side of the mic, and it does not lock in place, which could make that feature, not so great. On the other hand it looks like it has some mic gain built in so that might offset a bit of the H1 mic pre issues.

Bottom line YOU know more about your needs than any of us do. We are just pointing out issues that you may encounter. I would think about all of that because we are not talking about made up scenarios, these are all problems that we have had using stuff like your set up. You may not ever have any of the problems we have brought up, but you shouldn't be surprised if one or all do come up. I personally have never snapped a 3.5mm plug off in the jack, though I did have a 1/4" one comapart in a jack. But I have snapped the jack off the board. Luckily for me it was before everything went surface mount and there was enough room for me to re solder it in place.
 
Anonomatos said:
So I used the Rode Videomic Pro that way but HELL it's flimsy. Every time the rubber bands came loose. Cable is very very thin.
Click to expand...
I'm not familiar with any of the Rode Videomic's build quality, so Anonomatos may be better off with a more solid mic Otherwise an unbalanced mic signal is still a concern, especially if the cable run is longer than than a few meters. The Deit could also be used in a balanced config at some point.
 
H1. I had one once a long time ago. If I was forced to use one now, I'd kill myself. Admittedly, it was a first generation type product, and early adopters were severely punished. Using one today......yikes.
 
Anonomatos said:
Thanks for chiming in, folks!

I've just sold an NTG3 and a Zoom H5. And I'm selling my JuicedLink RM222 and Rode Videomic Pro soon.
It was all too much stuff to carry around and think about. For each shoot I needed a different setup.

So I'm simplifying and want to work with just 1 mic that doesn't require phantom power. The Deity D3 Pro is a pretty decent mic.
I'm understanding the unbalanced line is the problem. So using a recorder and a boom pole (i.e. shorter cable, not dangling) should help to minimize interference. Right?
Click to expand...

While I'll usually be an advocate for Deity products as great bang for their bucks, you are however changing from a NTG3, which would seem like usually this could be quite the step down... why? You have a Kinefinity Terra, why are you spending pennies on your sound?
 
Anonomatos said:
Allright folks, time to clear some things up!

First of all, I'm mostly working in small crews. I do doc work, 48HFP's, music videos, short fiction, et cetera. Basically anything except events and wedding. All low budget indie stuff. Most of the times the audio is either 1) not needed (in case of a music video, for example) OR 2) there's a sound guy and I only record scratch audio.

In some scenarios I needed a microphone solution.
Click to expand...

Nah, you need: 1st) timecode box 2nd) wireless hop 3rd) scratch mic

1 & 2 your audio guy should provide (or find a different one), third one then sure the Deity D3 Pro
 
There seems to be an XLR converter accessory: https://www.deitymic.com/d-xlr/

I would like to know how you think the mic sounds once you get it. Diety’s S-Mic 2 has been said to be exceptional for the price (only $359). Who’s to say that a $200 mic from the same manufacturer won’t as well? Especially for a short on-camera device. I bought a AT875R a few years back for that purpose after hearing wide praise, and I was NOT impressed. Please report back.
 
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