Mic/audio kit for HVX200

ExileOnTheMainStreet said:
sorry these numbers of yours are ridiculous to make normal setup
if you wanna saffer and work armature way -its your decision
Click to expand...

My budget for the movie may be rediculous for you, but it's all I have. I'm trying to find the extra money somewhere that I can utilize for this, but I'm already more than $1000 over what I was initially expecting to spend on the audio package. I came here to ask questions and get educated, not to get beat up. I've taken all the advice I've gotten from this and other threads I've read so far and changed my initial audio package. Is it so bad that I ask if there's another less expensive solution that will get me similar good results? There's a lot of different equipment out there, and sometimes with electronics and other mechandise there's something less expensive, but the same or even better performance than a more expensive "higher end" unit.

Anyways...

About the mixer, thanks for the suggestion. I'm trying to locate the extra funds so I can get the better one you mention.

I'm confused about this snake business. Is it combining two or more cables in a way that it sort of stretches or something? Or do I just tie the cables together?
 
the snake is a multicore Hirose cable that connects the mixer to the camera. It combines 2-channels into the camers and one return channel back to the mixer, so the recordist can monitor the sound on the camera.

The whole cable is exactly the same as using two XLRs and one Headphone extension, so yes, you could tie these 3 cables together and get the same results, but handling the three cables for every set-up would become a nightmare, its just a lot better to only unplug and re-plug one cable that does the whoe lot.

the hirose comes in any lengths you like, I saw a 60m one on ebay!
 
hirosa is aconnector company and few otheres componenets
- they dont make cables
the 302 doesnt have multyply output and the omly hirosa it has id the dc input connector
 
Mike,

The mixers being mentioned here are all ENG/over the shoulder types of mixers. These will certainly work well in pretty much any situation. But, if your mixer can sit and mix (on a cart or table or such), and you have access to power, there are many other good (not great like SD) mixers you can look at. The Mackie mixers are reasonably priced, and do a good job (I'm currently using an Onyx 1620, and am very happy with it.) And, the cost factor is much lower (~$800 for the 1620, without the firewire option). The only mixers in this category I would stay away from for sure are the Behringers. My first mixer was a Behringer, and I only used it for two projects before getting the Mackie. Boy was there an amazing difference. The first time I used the Mackie, I thought something was wrong because it was so quiet compared to the Behringer.

But, regardless, you may want to look at used mixers from the usual suspects: Coffey, Trew, Location, etc. I think you said earlier you were wary of used equipment, but I have had really good experiences buying used from these guys (and even a few pieces off of eBay).

Phil
 
tajimi!


anyway, this thing; whatever it is.
icon10.gif


Dsc00610.jpg
 
Over-the-shoulder will probably work best for now since there may be situations where we can't set up a table or stationary spot for the sound recorder. There will be some situations where we'll have to setup and get out quick.

I understand what the snake is now. I'll definitely get one of those. It will make setup and breakdown easier.
 
flmmkr, i understand the cash issue. been there a lot myself, and i still AM there, just maybe slightly higher bracket (like trying to get a cs3e instead of mkh416, or going with lectro 401 kit instead of other lectro kit), but point is, i understand what you're saying.

the 302 is a MUCH better mixer than the mixpre, in terms of features. BUT if you know you can get away with two channels, that your sound guy is good enough to work with less accuracy while metering and no output limiters (which save you from distortion), you dont need many options for monitoring from other sources etc etc etc, then you can do mixpre.

personally, i dont think the amps in the mixpre are very different to the 302 (could be proven wrong on this, though - oleg will step in), so make the choice.

it comes down to this: oleg will bring you amazing sound on the mixpre with a 4073a, better than, say, mine on a 442 with the best mics on earth. but if you dont have the best mixer available, getting better gear CAN help you overcome technical inadequacies.

cheers.
tim
 
Oh boy, here I go....

I decided to change it up and go to higher price bracket. I just listened to a comparison of the AT4073A vs. the MKH416 and all I can say is WOW. The MKH416 blows the AT4973A away. So much more range, depth, and clarity. I wasn't expecting to hear such a difference. So now I will be getting the MKH416.

I also listened to several samples of the Oktava MK012 at
HTML: 
http://www.dvfreelancer.com/articles/shotgun_shootout.html
and must say I am disappointed. The sound didn't seem natural or detailed and definitely not like I was right there (especially with the ice and soda clip). I must admit that it's hard to tell because all the samples on that site are recorded with a lot of background noise. I would like to get a hypercardioid with comparable sound quality to the MKH416. Is it just that those recordings aren't a very good example of how that mic sounds? Any other recommendations?

Also...

The rest of my original package was going to consist of :

Gitzo G7680C Carbon Fiber Fishpole 33" - 151.1"
Rycote Windshield 4 Zeppelin/Blimp 330mm
Rycote Windjammer 4 Windscreen for Windshield
K-Tek K-SSM Shock Mount
Sound Devices 302 Portable 3-Channel Mixer
Sound Devices XL-WPH AC-DC Power Supply
Sony MDR-7506 Headphones

Yes, I decided to also upgrade to the 302 mixer instead of the MixPre. After some thought I know Exile and everyone else here is sending me in the right direction. I need to do it right.

Will all of those items still work with the MKH416 or are there better complimentary equipment I should consider?
 
Mike,

I hate to put a damper on things, and I do commend you for doing the right thing and getting the best equipment you can, but in the case of the 416, you may want to rethink. Do you have a great boom op? The 416 is very unforgiving. It's pattern is very tight. The 4073a is more forgiving. It goes back to the old axiom (I think Matt first said this): A good boom op can get better sound with an AT55 than a inexperienced/bad boom op can with a 416. So, while equipment is a big part of it (and a great boom op with great equipment can blow you away), you also need to understand what your work conditions are going to be. I actually carry two different sets of mics for exactly this reason. One set for the novice boom op and one set for the experienced boom op. (Well, truth be told, I still carry my AT897...my first shotgun...for situations where there is risk the mic can be damaged...like the time I was mixing on a film that shot in an outdoor herring processing plant. The 897 survived, but my mic cables all went in the trash (they were my old, non-quad cables)...I could never get the fish smell out of them. ;-)

Phil
 
on the oktava - dont judge it til you're holding in your hand. that mic SMOKES for the price.

on the 416 - ill disagree with phil here (just an opinion though, use it, lose it, y'know) and say go with the 416 if you can afford it, PROVIDED your boom op is decent, and you have the time and dedication to practise the shots, and be consistent when it comes to checking what has been recorded. used right, the 416 will make you very happy. yes, its more unforgiving. its also more rewarding when used right, and most people here will agree.

on the wind protection - heres a controversial one, consider dropping the zeppelin and just get a rycote softy. that is, unless you're shooting a LOT of exteriors in VERY windy locations. I use my softy 95% of the time because its cheaper, lighter, and does a pretty good job in wind, too. My zep is for those few, really difficultly windy situations.


by the way, mike, good move going higher up in the food chain. now, even if you dont like the gear, your resale wont be much lower than you will pay initially... cheers, tim
 
I will just make sure I get a decent boom op and we'll be checking shots after every setup. We need to before we break down lighting setups anyway.

I do need the zepp. I live in an area where the name of one of the cities is Native American for "windy city" and there's at least three potential locations there (I have to go where I can get the locations cheap).

Does any have any samples of anything shot/recorded with the Oktava that sounds good?

Will the rest of the equipment match up all right (i.e. size of zepp and softie for 416, 302 mixer with the 416)? Do I need a softie for the Oktava?
 
yes ull need a softie, or better, a baby ball gag for the oktava, as well as a decent shockmount. luckily, the oktava and 416 have the same width measurements, so it is possible to get one shock mount to fit them both (you'll never use both on a boom at the same time).

fair enough with the zeppelin..

302 works great with those mics. unfortunately, i dont have any oktava stuff on me at the moment, and anyway i dont have hosting. but i dont think ive EVER been unhappy with sound from my oktava. a film i recorded sound on (mainly with oktava) is coming to me for post soon, so ill have some stuff quite soon, though.
 
Is the KSSM Shock Mount the right one of the 416 and the Oktava? If not, which one should I get. Also, what would the right softie and baby ball gag be for the Oktava? I may get both just in case.
 
flmmkr said:
I will just make sure I get a decent boom op and we'll be checking shots after every setup. We need to before we break down lighting setups anyway.
Click to expand...

Hate to sound like a nag here but why don't you wait to make these final purchasing decision until you have your sound crew. The quality of the boom op will make a difference in what mic you get. The 416 is not really that hard to boom unless the dialog is complicated and wide but a novice boom op would likely do better with a more forgiving shotgun.

Not sure what sort of schedule you are on for this film but I have NEVER been on a set, be it a small or big budget production, that has time between setups to review all the footage on set to see if it was recorded well. On occassion they might review one particular shot if they are checking for something specific or if it is a shot that needs a lot of prep time to shoot again (squibs, FX, bloodwork stuff). But the point is, you need your sound guy to know if the audio is good the moment you call "Cut!"

I encourage you to really spend less time sweating out the details of a good sound package and focus on figuring out how to get a good sound crew. Then let them sweat the details of what equipment will work or not.

The package you are looking at right now is putting you in about $2500 range and you have no wireless. Going as cheap as possible with the w/l will put you around another $1500 for two G2 and two B3 or EMW lavs. You could skip the w/l but not one movie I have mixed or know of has had none of final dialog come from the wireless (creative use of the a double negative there :) ). I hate wireless with a passion but they are a necessary evil. OK, on some things they are nice to use but when you really need them, like Murphy's Law, they fail you.

The point is, you could spend all this money first and then find no one competent to run it. Conclusion: Several thousand dollars spent and your movie has bad audio BUT you have a bunch of nice audio equipment.

If you get your crew first and then decide how to spend the equipment budget, you can cherry pick those things that will work best with the crew you have.

Cheers
 
the oktava 012 has several options for purchase. is it worth the extra expense to purchase the other capsules. they have new ones on ebay for 169 for 1 caqpsule or 300 for 3 capsules???
 
tlcmetrokc said:
the oktava 012 has several options for purchase. is it worth the extra expense to purchase the other capsules. they have new ones on ebay for 169 for 1 caqpsule or 300 for 3 capsules???
Click to expand...


Yes or you will have to pay $64-85.00 for each additional one if you don't get the Hyper.
 
timapter said:
yes ull need a softie, or better, a baby ball gag for the oktava, as well as a decent shockmount. luckily, the oktava and 416 have the same width measurements, so it is possible to get one shock mount to fit them both (you'll never use both on a boom at the same time).

fair enough with the zeppelin..

302 works great with those mics. unfortunately, i dont have any oktava stuff on me at the moment, and anyway i dont have hosting. but i dont think ive EVER been unhappy with sound from my oktava. a film i recorded sound on (mainly with oktava) is coming to me for post soon, so ill have some stuff quite soon, though.
Click to expand...
Hi,

I've been using both an OktavaMK012 and a Shennh. ME66 directly plugged on a dsr PD170 for one year. The Oktava is extremely versatile and it always sounds "good" to me.

The only problem I have is that Ican't find any reference for a Softie, a softie from Reinhardt or the baby ballgag by Rycote due to it's particular shape.
Does anybody have the correct sizes to fit my Oktava ?

Thanks a lot (and sorry for my english...)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top