Metadata output to clip name possible on HMC150?

W

wsmith

Member
Hello, I've got a couple of HMC150s that I've been happy enough with. Lately I've been trying to get them to output metadata in form of "user clip name" i.e. CamA and CamB for each camera. Notwithstanding the fact that the official manual shows you how to do it and Mr. Green's book stating how to do so, I think this is big fat hoax and I just don't understand how that hoax could be so wildly perpetuated across the web. Panasonic's levl 2 support is now telling me they cannot do it.

I have successfully created the metadata info in Panasonic's AVCHD viewer ulility.
I have successfully uploaded that info into the camera.
I can see the metadata in the Metdata Properties screen in the camera menu.

It does not output that data prepended to the file name, as per the insrtructions. The metadata should be viewable in the camera's playback thumbnail viewer and in footage imported into my workstation.

Not!

If this is a hoax by Panasonic then I really fail to understand how they could not have fixed the problem via firmware update.

Please let me hear back from anyone else who has tried to do this - successful or not.

Thanks!

wsmith
 
Of course the metadata "works"! I mean, come on, it works exactly as I wrote it would, I tested it step by step, every bit of it, while I was writing that chapter. It works exactly as I said it does.

If it's not doing what you want, then we'd have to figure out what you're doing differently, or perhaps you're expecting it to do something it doesn't. For example, you said "It does not output that data prepended to the file name". Of course it doesn't prepend anything to the file name, the file name will always be "00000.mts" or "00001.mts". That's not what the User Clip Name does. The User Clip Name creates a metadata field that a properly-metadata-aware NLE can see and then reference. But the file name on the SD card is still "00000.mts".

So my guess is that either a) you're using a non-metadata-aware NLE, or b) you're not preserving the entire directory structure when copying over the footage, or c) you're not importing the footage properly (i.e., you're just dragging MTS files to the timeline) or d) you're expecting it to do something that it doesn't (such as modifying the actual recorded file name).

If you use an NLE that's metadata-aware, such as Premiere 6.0, and you import the footage properly (using the Media Browser function), you'll see that the metadata User Clip Name is indeed there and the clips show up in the bin with the User Clip Name intact.
 
Hello, Mr. Green,

Honestly I'd much prefer to be wrong. I'd rather believe Panasonic's level 2 support is wrong. The illustrations I've seen show this: the helpdoc inside the AVCAM viewer, for example. One pic is of the menu screen of thumbnails in playback mode. And one would have to think that their viewer should see it. The camera should see it.

So yes, I'm led to the understanding that my 'user clip name' should become part of the filename. Is not that very thing a possibility with higher-end cameras?

I'm cutting on CS6. I always bring the whole PRIVATE folder into my workstation and then import into my editor.

Thanks for your help.
 
Hello, Mr. Green,

Honestly I'd much prefer to be wrong. I'd rather believe Panasonic's level 2 support is wrong. The illustrations I've seen show this: the helpdoc inside the AVCAM viewer, for example. One pic is of the menu screen of thumbnails in playback mode. And one would have to think that their viewer should see it. The camera should see it.

So yes, I'm led to the understanding that my 'user clip name' should become part of the filename. Is not that very thing a possibility with higher-end cameras?

I'm cutting on CS6. I always bring the whole PRIVATE folder into my workstation and then import into my editor.

Thanks for your help.
 
I don't see the metadata anywhere. I can see the metadata folder right where it's supposed to be: in the directory and folder created by the AVCAM viewer. Please be more precise re where I will see in in CS6. Maybe it's just not being written to the card. Question: AFAIK the "META INITIAL SET" wipes any metadata you wrote to the camera. That's what happened to me when I used it. Panasonic support level 2 told me that also. The manual is worded to suggest that it "initializes" the metdata (and thus is a step that needs to be done after "recording" the metadata to the camera.)


Thanks
 
wsmith said:
The illustrations I've seen show this: the helpdoc inside the AVCAM viewer, for example. One pic is of the menu screen of thumbnails in playback mode.
Click to expand...
Yes, and there's an option where you can tell AVCCAM Viewer to display by filename, OR by user clip name. Or by timecode, or by date. You're seeing a picture of where they chose to display the icons by user clip name.

The camera should see it.
Click to expand...
That's an easy one to answer -- the camera does not. The HMC150 has no ability to recognize or display the user clip name, on the thumbnail screen. It just doesn't. Some of the higher-end P2 cameras may be able to, I don't recall off the top of my head, but the HMC150 doesn't. You should be able to get the metadata properties of each thumbnail from the playback screen though, and there it will tell you what the user clip name is.

So yes, I'm led to the understanding that my 'user clip name' should become part of the filename. Is not that very thing a possibility with higher-end cameras?
Click to expand...
Most definitely it is not. The User Clip Name is a metadata field, it is not the filename, and it does not affect the file name. User Clip Name is an entirely different, unassociated thing.
 
wsmith said:
By the way I am now using the media browser and don't any metadata there.
Click to expand...
Okay, going to have to rack my brain here -- I am certain that CS6 supports the good/no good clip marker. But does it support User Clip Name? Some programs do, some don't. I'm certain EDIUS supports it all.

I don't have CS6. I've got CS5. I thought for sure CS6 would support it all, but -- frankly, I haven't revisited the whole metadata thing in AVCCAM for a couple of years so I'm perhaps a tad rusty on it. Interestingly, AVCCAM Viewer is apparently going to be discontinued effective at the end of this month (10/31/2013). I'll download and install it and see if the user clip name shows up from avccam viewer, but ... again, I can tell you that the description I gave in the book is step-by-step accurate. I think you're just expecting it to do more than it actually does, and are struggling to understand just how limited the metadata actually is. They didn't even bother to put the metadata on their latest AVCCAM camera, the AC90. Very few people, that I know of, actually even use the feature.
 
Progress: I now see the metadata in the Viewer app. If I were to edit the files in the Viewer and write to media, it apparently will name the files according to metadata followed by sequential numbers generated by the camera. I didn't try it but that's what it looks like it will do.

Anyway, I'd love to understand how I can see this data in CS6. I'm looking for an easy way to name cameras and thus distinguish between multiple cameras by looking at the filenames or some other visibly apparent indicator, in my editor. CamA, CamB, etc. I have used these as my User File Names in the metadata.


I see no option for seeing it when looking at thumbnails in playback mode.

Thanks!
 
Just verified that Premiere Pro CS5 doesn't see the User Clip Name, it only sees the good/no good marker.

And Vegas 12 doesn't recognize the User Clip Name either.

However, the camera definitely recorded it properly; going into playback (on an AF100) and highlighting the clip thumbnail, then pressing DISP/MODE CHK, and finally the "exec" button (as instructed on the thumbnail screen) brings up the metadata display, and scrolling down one tick brings up the User Clip Name field. So it's there; it's just a question of what software will see it and work with it. Frankly that's been the downfall of the Panasonic metadata system; they set up something that would be pretty neat if it was supported, but support has been slow to nonexistent.
 
wsmith said:
Progress: I now see the metadata in the Viewer app. If I were to edit the files in the Viewer and write to media, it apparently will name the files according to metadata followed by sequential numbers generated by the camera. I didn't try it but that's what it looks like it will do.
Click to expand...
I don't believe it will. I'm no expert on AVCCAM Viewer, I only ran it a little, but I don't believe it will ever change the filename, it only updates the metadata references. The filenames will forever be "00090.mts", etc.

Anyway, I'd love to understand how I can see this data in CS6. I'm looking for an easy way to name cameras and thus distinguish between multiple cameras by looking at the filenames or some other visibly apparent indicator, in my editor. CamA, CamB, etc. I have used these as my User File Names in the metadata.
Click to expand...
That's exactly what the metadata is for, and I've done this same type of thing from P2. And the P2 metadata is identical to the AVCCAM metadata. The only question is -- will CS6 support that aspect of the metadata? And I don't know the answer to that, as I don't have CS6.


Glad you're making progress. Maybe ping David Jimerson, I believe he's a CS6 user and he may have some AVCCAM footage with the metadata and may be able to answer your question more thoroughly. Good luck!
 
Hmm. All very interesting re Panasonic and Adobe. I agree. Your method of DISP/MODE CHK not working for me.

Interestingly, it looks like the AVCAM Viewer, on import, renames the file name itself to whatever you had installed under User File Name. You can see that by right-clicking on an imported clip in the editor and selecting Metadata.

I assume that this metadata is actually there but that Premiere cannot see it.
 
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