Metabones Speed Booster

jcs said:
Any lens will be way sharper on the FS700+MB than a 5D3 when shooting video, especially wide shots (I have tested both setups). The 5D3 is a ~1620x910 camera vs. the FS700 (1920x1080). The FS700+MB with a Nanoflash looks excellent (422 100Mbit long GOP MPEG2) under challenging conditions (the internal 24Mbps AVCHD codec works well in most conditions). The 5D3 will get clean 422 out in April (resolution won't likely be increased, though (beyond doubling chroma)).
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Are you talking about sensor readout resolution during video? I think the 5Dmk3 does capture a bit higher than that since it does seem that with 3x line skipping of a 5760 x 3840 sensor is actually 1920x1080. That of course is bayer data, so the 1080p YUV video is interpolated from that and certainly not as highly resolving as an camera that oversamples would be. Maybe you are thinking of the 7D which reads closer to ~1600x900 and is a bit softer than the 5Dmk2/3? Anyway, without oversampling at all, 5Dmk3 is fairly soft in its 1080p images. It is great for sharp 720p delivery though.

So the 5Dmk3 is at best capturing 1920x1080 line skipped from the bayer sensor whereas the FS700 is a 4k sensor originating images from a 3840x2160, so both cameras are delivering 1080p files, but the FS700 certainly will resolve a lot more detail.
 
I shot an ISO12233 chart (http://www.graphics.cornell.edu/~westin/misc/res-chart.html) and got 800+ lines before detail extinction (estimated with a smaller chart). Jason Green did it with a full-sized chart, and detail extinction happened around 890 lines (https://vimeo.com/39517721). slashcam.de posted a result of ~600 lines, though it's not clear how they measured or what criteria was used as resolution cut off. Magic Lantern folks stated that Canon is scaling up a ~1620/910 image into ~1920x1080 before compression. If true, that's the max possible resolution of the 5D3. 1620/2 = 810 TV lines (horizontal resolution), which matches pretty close to what we measured with charts, after sharpening. Thus, slashcam.de might have measured without post sharpening and put the cut off at first artifacts (600 TV lines), whereas we can see usable detail all the way out past 800 TV lines if post sharpened. The 5D3 has a large amount of Gaussian-like blur, which can be significantly sharpened in post (unlike most cameras). In any case, if you compare 5D3 footage at 1920x1080 (sharpened) to the same frame downsampled to 1280x720 and upsampled back to 1920x1080, you'll see a loss of detail.
 
Thanks guys!!! Really great info. much appreciated!!! Do you guys think i should sell the 5D mark iii since i will be getting the fs700 with the speed booster. I could use that money for something else although having 2 cameras is really nice. i will be doing Docs and music videos. I feel the fs700 + metabones would be the work horse camera. I originally got the 5D because of the full frame wide shots and really shallow DOF. but with the metabones adapter it seems that the fs700 will be very close to that. However to justify selling the 5dmarkiii , not sure.

Any ideas? i have a zeiss cp 21mm 2.9 and will be getting a Zeiss cp 1.5 super speed 50mm EF
 
At Baddgsx. I would get both the regular Metabones and the Speed Booster, that way you can have 2 focal lengths for each lens. I tend to like the compressed look so I like a lot of reach, so I would probably use the regular Metabones more, but I am getting the Speed Booster for sure. I came from Canon's and I am so much happier with the FS700.

Full frame on the FS700. So RAD!

Oh Yes Baddgsx, I shoot mostly music videos, projects with more of an artistic slant and some B-Roll for clients. I can say that the FS700 is the ULTIMATE Music Video camera. You are going to love it. Plus, for handheld barebones, the FS700 is so much easier to handhold than DSLRs, if you shorten the viewfinder. Tutorials are on line.

The slow motion is just so great for that Genre as well as sports and Doc B-Roll. When I get Cable channel B-Roll gigs, they specifically request "Slow Motion" because they love it. I filmed the Rose Parade for the Bravo Channel, shot it all in 60fps and 120fps and they literally pooped their pants because they love the slow motion so much.
 
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gene_can_sing said:
At Baddgsx. I would get both the regular Metabones and the Speed Booster, that way you can have 2 focal lengths for each lens. I tend to like the compressed look so I like a lot of reach, so I would probably use the regular Metabones more, but I am getting the Speed Booster for sure. I came from Canon's and I am so much happier with the FS700.

Full frame on the FS700. So RAD!

Oh Yes Baddgsx, I shoot mostly music videos, projects with more of an artistic slant and some B-Roll for clients. I can say that the FS700 is the ULTIMATE Music Video camera. You are going to love it. Plus, for handheld barebones, the FS700 is so much easier to handhold than DSLRs, if you shorten the viewfinder. Tutorials are on line.

The slow motion is just so great for that Genre as well as sports and Doc B-Roll. When I get Cable channel B-Roll gigs, they specifically request "Slow Motion" because they love it. I filmed the Rose Parade for the Bravo Channel, shot it all in 60fps and 120fps and they literally pooped their pants because they love the slow motion so much.
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Right on! great idea of getting both the speed booster and regular one. Im soooo excited

Chris
 
Friends , ive been thinking

How do you friends feel about this idea. I think the FS100 will be a better B camera for the FS700. Im thinking to sell the 5Dmarkiii and add a couple bucks to get the fs100 and just swap adapters and lens when needed. This will also make it easier for post aswell. Is the nano flash the only reliable recorder for 4:2:2. Its pretty pricey especially if i buy two?

Thanks
Chris
 
i have three BMD recorders - one on each of my FS100's set to record DNxHD, and one set to record uncompressed that i can swap to for greenscreen shots (changeing the record settings on set is a PITA) and acts as back-up should either give me any issues.. so far they have been rock solid and i have never had any issues with them

at under $350 each it made sense to get a spare.. all three together are cheaper than one Ninja

as to using an FS100 as a Bcam rather than a 5D?

Makes sense to me - if you don't shoot stills as well

d
 
wow , thats alot cheaper. i guess i can get one bmc for the fs100 and a nanoflash for the fs700 IF and only IF the nanoflash will do 10bit record for SLO-motion.
 
Baddgsx- I like using the 5D3 as a reference tool to match the FS700 to. Here's a commercial shot on the 5D3 (they could have used RED or Sony gear, but chose the 5D3 for less production work/time to get good skintones): https://vimeo.com/41163912
Here's a simple test showing how sharp the 5D3 can look when post-sharpened: https://vimeo.com/39445020. I plan to use the Nanoflash with the 5D3 in April when Canon releases the 422 HDMI out upgrade. This should allow higher quality overall and improve post-sharpening performance.

For wider shots, the 5D3 doesn't work so well due to limited resolution (FS700 is much better).

The Nanoflash can record 10-bit 422 and works well with the FS700, however the FS700 only outputs 8-bit (current an F3 or better are required for 10-bit). The internal AVCHD codec works very well for low motion and well lit shots. 100Mbps long GOP MPEG2 with the Nanoflash holds detail much better for motion and low-light shots (low light is also noisier (less noise tossed by the codec), however can be cleaned with Neat Video while preserve actual detail)).
 
Thanks JCS!!! Great info. Im set on getting an FS100 with a recorder. I really dislike the 5Dmarkiii controls, erogonomics, and the fact that wide shots are considered soft compared to the FS700. The main reason why i bought the full frame sensor 5dmarkiii was to get great wide shots.
 
@baddgsx. Not sure on selling the 5d3 for the FS100. I think the 5D3 has a better look than the FS100 in terms of highlights and skin tones. The FS700 is kind of like the 5D3 in that its pretty good out of the box for highlights and skin tones if you use the Cinegammas. The FS100 takes a lot more tweaking than the FS700 and 5D3 to get the right look, plus FS100 has some pretty noticeable sensor reflection issues compared to the 700 and the 5D3. The 700 is a lot easier than the 100, which is really PP reliant.

Tough choice. Personally I would keep the 5D3 and get the FS700. Even though its soft, the 5D3 has a nice look without a lot of fuss, plus it's also a stills camera.
 
The FS100 with or without recorder should work well with the Speed Booster. Stock, the FS100 (without the Cinegamma's of the FS700) has a more video look than the 5D3 (even the FS700 with the Cinegammas needs tweaking). Be prepared for some post work to get the Sony FS(100/700) looking as good as the 5D3 in terms of color and film look (suggest keeping your 5D3 until you figure out the process if you plan to sell it. I use mine a lot for stills too). You'll also want to spend some time setting up the internal camera settings. This might be a good place to start for the FS100: http://blog.abelcine.com/2011/07/25/fs100-scene-files-from-abelcine/.
 
Clarification: the Nanoflash cannot record 10-bit. It is an 8-bit recorder only.

Then again, the fs100 and fs700 only output 8-bit, don't they? So if you want a nano, you won't be losing anything.

However, be aware that no external recorder will record the slow mo from an fs100 or fs700. Maybe the forthcoming raw recorder from Sony will, I don't know, but none of today's recorders will.
 
Double-checked the manual- the Nanoflash is in fact 8-bit only, as are the FS100/700, so nothing lost there.

The Convergent-Design Gemini has been reported to be able to record the slowmo (can handle 60p via 3G-SDI), and apparently it's also possible if the camera output is configured as 60i (instead of 24p or 60p).
http://www.xdcam-user.com/2012/06/uncompressed-slow-mo/
 
Barry_Green said:
Clarification: the Nanoflash cannot record 10-bit. It is an 8-bit recorder only.

Then again, the fs100 and fs700 only output 8-bit, don't they? So if you want a nano, you won't be losing anything.

However, be aware that no external recorder will record the slow mo from an fs100 or fs700. Maybe the forthcoming raw recorder from Sony will, I don't know, but none of today's recorders will.
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I was under the impression that 3G HD-SDI recorders supporting 1080p60 would record slow-mo from the FS700. Also it sounded like it was possible to shoot 240fps on the FS700 and even on a recorder only capable of 1080p30 you could get a 120fps recording out of it by recording the 1080p30 output that comes out of the hd-sdi output while it is writing the buffer at 60fps out to the card. I haven't tried these myself but I recall reading early reviews of the FS700 where people found this to be possible.
 
Just tested it- FS700 slowmo to Nanoflash (60i output via SDI): works. In the S&Q Slowmo menu, the output was 24p, so it might need 3:2 pulldown when deinterlacing (can perhaps set up the Nanoflash to do this to get back to 24p (supports 3:2 pulldown)).

[EDIT]: didn't find a way to make 3:2 pulldown work. 60i Rec Out is what allows it to work.
 
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jcs said:
The FS100 with or without recorder should work well with the Speed Booster. Stock, the FS100 (without the Cinegamma's of the FS700) has a more video look than the 5D3 (even the FS700 with the Cinegammas needs tweaking). Be prepared for some post work to get the Sony FS(100/700) looking as good as the 5D3 in terms of color and film look (suggest keeping your 5D3 until you figure out the process if you plan to sell it. I use mine a lot for stills too). You'll also want to spend some time setting up the internal camera settings. This might be a good place to start for the FS100: http://blog.abelcine.com/2011/07/25/fs100-scene-files-from-abelcine/.
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To me, I like the Canon aesthetic better than the FS100 just because of the color and the highlights. But that's definitely not the case with the FS700. With a few tweaks in Cinegamma 1, I get this very muted, vintage, low contrast look that I absolutely love. You get a much more realistic color representation with the FS700 than the Canons which has that baked in over-satured, warm Canon signature. It's a nice look, but I'm a heavy grader so I prefer something more muted and with more realistic colors.
 
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