Samuel H
Major Contributor
Sorry, I hadn't watched the video. If it's not on a tripod, it's useless. A tiny roll of the camera throws away the measurement by A LOT.
Measuring rolling shutter: put a number on this issue!
- Thread starter Samuel H
- Start date
Emanuel
Cross-Examiner
Anyways... Make an effort, I am all curious and following up too : ) Can you do it in the name of our old fellowship? ;-)
I also find kinda interesting to focus on the solution, rather than issues & their sisters & cousins! :-D
There are only a few solutions, and we recently discussed them. You need to do one or more of the following:
1 clock the data out faster for a faster scan time
2 use a global shutter (complete frame transfer)
3 use a mechanical shutter and clock the data out during the dark period
Tricks to get #1 are things like crop the sensor so you clock a smaller number of pixels (smaller area), and bin/skip the pixels/lines so you can clock them out faster. Otherwise you need to throw more buffer, more processing, more clock speed at the problem and hope you can deal with the heat produced.
1 clock the data out faster for a faster scan time
2 use a global shutter (complete frame transfer)
3 use a mechanical shutter and clock the data out during the dark period
Tricks to get #1 are things like crop the sensor so you clock a smaller number of pixels (smaller area), and bin/skip the pixels/lines so you can clock them out faster. Otherwise you need to throw more buffer, more processing, more clock speed at the problem and hope you can deal with the heat produced.
Samuel H
Major Contributor
Haha, sorry, mate, it makes no sense. I'm also interested in whether a fix-it-in-post solution would work, but I just can't get numbers from handheld footage. In any case, in terms of skew it looks pretty good, it makes more sense to ask yourself whether the resulting motion looks pleasing to you (it looks good on my TV, but on my computer screen it looks kind of weird; well, actually, as if it had lots of post motion work on it).
Emanuel
Cross-Examiner
Your clinic eye... LOL As film editor in my academic background as primary choice/route : ) I have nothing against post, on the contrary, it is a required part of the process. Native acquisition as anything pure and immaculated is BS, as same as finding the perfect camera. Post is just the afternoon part of the day. You well know it, your video work is the finest example of it ;-)
Samuel H
Major Contributor
I agree with all of that (and in particular the fact that post is a very important part of the process and it shouldn't be played down) except for last bit: you're too kind, my work is not the finest example of anything I'm afraid. I'm still just learning how to make good videos. I'm a good with the technical details, but most of the people in these boards shoot much better stuff than I do!!
Canon 5Dsr - https://vimeo.com/136505417
Note you need to Download the video to get the 1080p version.
Shot at 23.976 fps and 1/50th second - wouldn't 1/1000 have been easier to spot the edges?
I did this after finding the moire/aliasing is out-of-the-park better than my GH3 or GH4 when shooting at 1080p, so thought the overall video performance was worth investigating. (Although note the GH4 at 4k is just plain excellent.)
Here's my favourite moire/aliasing test (the GH3 one is just a random video I uploaded late one night when Andrew Reid asked me for one, I have 70+ from both GH3 and GH4 with about every possible combination of settings and they are all rubbish)...
GH3 (GH4 is the same): https://vimeo.com/136023791
5Dsr (Neutral Picture Style): https://vimeo.com/136118235
Thread: http://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic...r-moire-and-lack-of-uncompressed-hdmi/?page=5
Note you need to Download the video to get the 1080p version.
Shot at 23.976 fps and 1/50th second - wouldn't 1/1000 have been easier to spot the edges?
I did this after finding the moire/aliasing is out-of-the-park better than my GH3 or GH4 when shooting at 1080p, so thought the overall video performance was worth investigating. (Although note the GH4 at 4k is just plain excellent.)
Here's my favourite moire/aliasing test (the GH3 one is just a random video I uploaded late one night when Andrew Reid asked me for one, I have 70+ from both GH3 and GH4 with about every possible combination of settings and they are all rubbish)...
GH3 (GH4 is the same): https://vimeo.com/136023791
5Dsr (Neutral Picture Style): https://vimeo.com/136118235
Thread: http://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic...r-moire-and-lack-of-uncompressed-hdmi/?page=5
Thanks! It would have been cool if it was a little faster, but I suspect there's a trade-off against the aliasing/moire.
I'm not sure how much actual video I'll shoot with it, as I have a GH4 for that, but the 1080p is so much cleaner than the GH4 I may use it a bit. (The GH4 in 4k is great though.)
Oh and the C300 II White Paper is here:
http://www.usa.canon.com/CUSA/asset...mageperformanceenhancements-eosc300markii.pdf
On page 2:
"In the original C300 image sensor there were two fast readout modes – one, at 1/60 sec progressive and another at 1/120 sec interlace. The new image sensor in the C300 Mark II has a single readout capability of up to 1/120 sec progressive – further reducing rolling shutter skew effects."
I'm not sure how much actual video I'll shoot with it, as I have a GH4 for that, but the 1080p is so much cleaner than the GH4 I may use it a bit. (The GH4 in 4k is great though.)
Oh and the C300 II White Paper is here:
http://www.usa.canon.com/CUSA/asset...mageperformanceenhancements-eosc300markii.pdf
On page 2:
"In the original C300 image sensor there were two fast readout modes – one, at 1/60 sec progressive and another at 1/120 sec interlace. The new image sensor in the C300 Mark II has a single readout capability of up to 1/120 sec progressive – further reducing rolling shutter skew effects."
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Another candidate...
http://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic...ompressed-hdmi/?do=findComment&comment=104558
"If you use magic lantern on the 5dIII you can get the rolling shutter down to 16.9 ms by tweaking timers."
"If you use magic lantern on the 5dIII you can get the rolling shutter down to 16.9 ms by tweaking timers."
http://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic...ompressed-hdmi/?do=findComment&comment=104558
"If you use magic lantern on the 5dIII you can get the rolling shutter down to 16.9 ms by tweaking timers."
"If you use magic lantern on the 5dIII you can get the rolling shutter down to 16.9 ms by tweaking timers."
Samuel H
Major Contributor
Well, having both the fastest RS and a very bad RS with great image otherwise isn't so bad at all: if you're shooting something with lots of camera shake, or a fast pan, etc, then switching to 1080p just for that shot shouldn't matter at all: it will be blurred anyway.
Any chance you can add the G7 to the mix? Been looking at one for a gimbal cam since they're so cheap and 4k looks good to 6400. Here's a tripod test that should be measurable.
http://www.videomaker.com/video/watch/reviews/18454-panasonic-lumix-dmc-g7-hands-on-review