I've owned a sennheiser k6/me66 for a few years now. It has served me well, but I'm not enamoured with the sound in any way. I'm shooting a short film next month for festival release and I was thinking about perhaps getting a 416 or a rode ntg3 to replace it. Are these mics a significant improvement on what I have already?
me66 or 416 or rode ntg3
- Thread starter Soldier
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Steve House
Veteran
Yes, either mic is signfigiantly better than the ME66. Heck, even the Rode NTG-1 is better sounding IMHO then the ME66 even though it's considerably cheaper. As for any difference between the 416 and the NTG-3, not so much. There are a lot of comparison audio files around - give 'em a listen and decide if there's a dfference to your ears. I think most would argree there's not enough difference the two to matter.
Alpha Flying Monkey
Well-known member
Had the ME66 & the 416.. Sold both & bought the NTG-3, mostly because of the sound characteristics of the Rode & their 10-year warranty. REALLY didn't like the ME66 for vocals (great for ambient sound recording, though- quiet self noise). The 416 was quite good, but since it was touchier than the NTG-3 when it came to booming as well as used & without warranty I thought the NTG-3 was a better long-term bet.
John Willett
Veteran
Yes, it is true what Mr John Willett has said that the MKH416 is the industry standard, but my point was to take into consideration pricing on what you can afford. If you can afford a little more, have a look at the Schoeps CMIT 5U. If you can't, than the MHK 416 is great. If you can't afford either of these, than the Rode NTG 3 would be my next option.
My opinion comes from my personal experience and owning all 3 of these microphones(and a lot more), and also from trusted colleagues who use the Rode NTG 3 on flagship programs like 60 Minutes which I might add, does go through audio sweetening.
My opinion comes from my personal experience and owning all 3 of these microphones(and a lot more), and also from trusted colleagues who use the Rode NTG 3 on flagship programs like 60 Minutes which I might add, does go through audio sweetening.
John Willett
Veteran
Yes, the Schoeps CMIT is a very nice mic. But I don't think I would get one of those nowadays - I would go straight to the Super CMIT. It's the only gun mic. that can cancel out the rear out-of-phase lobe.
Thanks everyone. I've been looking at ebay and their are quite a few second hand 416's and they seem to be at a reasonable price. Some are silver, others are black. Some are called MKH416T , others are called MKH 416-p48. What is the difference? my guess would be one has phantom power the other doesn't? would that be correct? What is the story with the silver ones? My assumption would be that they are an older model. Is there a sound quality difference between them and the newer looking black models?
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Sennheisser bought Nueman Microphone's a few years ago(not sure of when) and adapted their technology into senn microphones. These now come with the prefix MKH. They are better all round. I would get one with p48 powering, as T power is not supplied on a lot of mixers these days and need a power adapter box. Also, if it is 2nd hand, get a service done on it. I believe Syntec in Sydney is the authorized repairer in Aus/NZ.
The powering of the Super CMIT 5U because it is a digital microphone is limiting, I am aware of only two mixer/recorders that have the capability of powering it, the SD788, and Zaxcom. And it is more than double the price of the standard CMIT 5U. As digital microphones become more of the norm, prices will drop and the ease of powering will become standardized.
P.S Solder
GO THE BRUMBIES!
The powering of the Super CMIT 5U because it is a digital microphone is limiting, I am aware of only two mixer/recorders that have the capability of powering it, the SD788, and Zaxcom. And it is more than double the price of the standard CMIT 5U. As digital microphones become more of the norm, prices will drop and the ease of powering will become standardized.
P.S Solder
GO THE BRUMBIES!
Steve House
Veteran
The NKH416-P48 is powered by 48 volt phantom power. The MKH416-T is powered by 12 volt T, also known as A/B, Power. They are NOT interchangeable but adapter boxes to use T-power mics with 48v phantom power sources are readily avaible and not expensive. As far as sound quality, it makes no difference. Phantom replaced t-power because the t-power wiring scheme can put a damaging voltage across ribbon or dynamic mics if they're accidently plugged into a t-power source while phantom's scheme avoids this danger.
John Willett
Veteran
Sorry - this is total rubbish!
MKH microphones were produced by Sennheiser decades before they bought Neumann. MKH microphones have been available since the early 1060s (when transistors were invented) and Sennheiser did not buy Neumann until 1990.
The technology used for MKH microphones is totally different from the technology used by Neumann and other microphone manufacturers - MKH microphones are RF microphones based on transistors - other microphones are AF condensers and are based on valves (vacuum tubes) and FETs.
Yes, Syntec is the Sennheiser / Neumann agent for Australia and New Zealand.
You can connect the SuperCMIT to any recorder that has an AES3 input - both Schoeps and Neumann do little converter boxes that provide the 10V phantom power to the mic. and output a standard AES3 signal. I use the Neumann "video" adaptor which takes power from my Nagra VI recorder via the Hirose socket.
If anyone wants to know more about Digital Microphones I will be doing a lecture at the European AES Convention in London in May.
John Willett
Veteran
The 416T is 12V AB (T) powered and the P48 means phantom power.
If the price is right a T-powered version is no problem as companies like Canford Audio do little XLR converter barrels that take in 48V phantom and throw out 12V T power for the mic., so you can power a T version from phantom power by using this adaptor.
Sam Mallery
Well-known member
Numerous people have reported that the NTG3 fails in cold weather:
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/all-things-audio/488419-rode-ntg-3-ntg3-cold-weather-issue.html
Most sound people agree that the ME66 is brash sounding (myself included).
The best choice of the three mics you listed is the 416.
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/all-things-audio/488419-rode-ntg-3-ntg3-cold-weather-issue.html
Most sound people agree that the ME66 is brash sounding (myself included).
The best choice of the three mics you listed is the 416.
Noiz2
Sound Ninja
Actually if you read the thread RODE makes clear that the mic is rated to work a -10f and if it doesn't you should return it and they will fix the issue. It also sounds like the problem is related to specific mics that may not have been handled correctly. One report is from one that was owned by a school and a student had the problem, having worked around a lot of schools I have no illusions about how well that mic had been treated, and the other guy was going from warm to freezing in a short amount of time. You can't do that with electronics as a rule.
Though it will be interesting if it turns out to be moisture freezing in the mic element. That would seem to be a flaw with the design, though not hard to work around.
however IF you live where you would be using at below freezing a lot I would keep tabs on that topic.
Though it will be interesting if it turns out to be moisture freezing in the mic element. That would seem to be a flaw with the design, though not hard to work around.
however IF you live where you would be using at below freezing a lot I would keep tabs on that topic.
Sam Mallery
Well-known member
I did read that thread, Noiz2.
I started this one:
http://jwsound.net/SMF/index.php?topic=7610.0
Where this was reported:
Condensation or not, if a Zoom H4n kicks your ass, you have a bona fide problem. I'm calling a spade a spade. NTG3 are failing in the cold. Period. A 10 year warranty won't do you much good when something dies in the field in the middle of a shoot and you need to continue working. If you would rather have a frozen H4n on a stick over a 416, that's your choice.
I started this one:
http://jwsound.net/SMF/index.php?topic=7610.0
Where this was reported:
Condensation or not, if a Zoom H4n kicks your ass, you have a bona fide problem. I'm calling a spade a spade. NTG3 are failing in the cold. Period. A 10 year warranty won't do you much good when something dies in the field in the middle of a shoot and you need to continue working. If you would rather have a frozen H4n on a stick over a 416, that's your choice.
Sam,
There is no mic that likes condensation, and when you move a warm anything, to a cold environment, you will get condensation. Check out a camera lens when going immediately from warm to cold. Panny cams will shut themselves off if they sense too much internal condensation. I don't know if the NTG-3 is more sensitive to condensation than other mics, but many mics do exhibit issues in this regard, and if that is the case, could certainly be considered a weakness. After reading through the various postings, the trend (though not always) was that folks were having troubles immediately after the transition from warm to cold. Warm it up (=dry it out) and it works fine. Of course the relative humidity on any given day will make a difference also.
What I am suggesting is that before condemning an otherwise very good mic, controlled test needs to occur. And in the same regard, what mic would be better in a specific circumstance. If the Mk416 performs flawlessly under such circumstances, then maybe you need to spend the extra $600 to cover your fanny pack.
Grant
There is no mic that likes condensation, and when you move a warm anything, to a cold environment, you will get condensation. Check out a camera lens when going immediately from warm to cold. Panny cams will shut themselves off if they sense too much internal condensation. I don't know if the NTG-3 is more sensitive to condensation than other mics, but many mics do exhibit issues in this regard, and if that is the case, could certainly be considered a weakness. After reading through the various postings, the trend (though not always) was that folks were having troubles immediately after the transition from warm to cold. Warm it up (=dry it out) and it works fine. Of course the relative humidity on any given day will make a difference also.
What I am suggesting is that before condemning an otherwise very good mic, controlled test needs to occur. And in the same regard, what mic would be better in a specific circumstance. If the Mk416 performs flawlessly under such circumstances, then maybe you need to spend the extra $600 to cover your fanny pack.
Grant
Sam Mallery
Well-known member
I'm familiar with the perils of condensation and microphones. I'm not condemning the NTG3, I'm just pointing out a flaw. If someone makes a post about which mic to get, I think this is something they should consider.
It was 13 degrees with a windchill of zero in NYC this morning. You were heading out the door for a paid job in this weather, which mic would you want to have with you?
It was 13 degrees with a windchill of zero in NYC this morning. You were heading out the door for a paid job in this weather, which mic would you want to have with you?
Sam Mallery
Well-known member
I'd be into that, but I'm NTG-3less. I bought the Rode VideoMic Pro the other day. I suppose I could stick it in my freezer, but I don't think this would tell us much about the NTG-3.