Maybe a stupid idea

[TNC]

I am thinking if this is possible???

I want a low key setup for recording dialogue for narrative film on location and i am wondering if it would be possible to record directly with a hardwired B6 to a M audio Microtrack and placing one recorder and one B6 on each actor. I know it will newer sound as good as a boom mice, but than again no mike will sound very good in a uncontrolled outside environment, city streets, malls, trains... I am thinking about this setup for those instances where a permit is impossible to get but one still has some dialogue. Any reason why this should not work and will it sound allot worse going directly to the micro track than by a dedicated field mixer? Can a B6 even run directly of a microtrack? Can someone knowledgeable help me out here? Anything I am not considering in the equation?

Also I have a G2 unite with a BP, one receiver and one transceiver. Is it possible to have the receiver pick up both the BP and the transceiver on the same frequency and so give me a guide track from both microtrack recorders that i can listen to while filming.

Thank you in for your feedback. I know this is gonna make most sound guys cringe.

 

[Alex H.]

I know this is gonna make most sound guys cringe.

Yup.

Here's the hitch in your plan: you'll end up with audio that you cannot use. Yes, the B6 could be wired to the 1/8" input of the Microtrack. But how are you going to know if the mic wiggles loose and starts to get lots of fabric rub? How are you going to know if the dialog over-modulates? How are you going to know if the mic comes unplugged? How will you know if a button is accidentally pressed and recording stops, the unit powers off, or the battery dies?

You have to be able to monitor your audio as you record, otherwise you are asking for trouble that you will not be able to resolve in post.

As for the G2 system, I'm going to assume that by "one BP and one transciever," you mean that you have a combo system with both belt-pack and plug-on transmitters. Is this correct? You can only run one transmitter on a single frequencey at a given time. If you add another transmitter on the same frequency, you won't get anything close to usable audio as the two transmitters will simply fight with each other.

If you need covert audio, you need to get a second wireless belt-pack system. Run B6 lavs with Sennheiser systems, and feed the camera with the two receivers.

 

[TNC]

C2v Tank you for the reply.

Yes, i have 1 g2 kit, with the BP and res, trans. I wan only thinking of using that to monitor the sound, as in knowing that the recorder was on record and cable was in ect. not to use as an actual production track.

In any case I find the quality of the sound when using the G2 unusable for narrative film so i was hoping that recording directly to microtrack would be better at least in terms of sound even with all the obvious head aches. I am of course only thinking about this as a plan B scenario, to get some sound, breathing, mowing, etc sounds and maybe 'some' dialogue, or in worst case good enough that it could be looped in at a later date. Than use a proper sound setup for any dialogue heavy scenes that i would set indoors or in a more controlled environments.

Is it unrealistic that i could set the levels prior to a scene and than just let the recording run? I mean option b would be like you say do everything wire less and have a guarantied unusable track that is with G2 at least. Any other options I am not thinking about.

So in your opinion this would not work? When you say fight with each other are we talking static sound or just bad quality?

 

[Alex H.]

In any case I find the quality of the sound when using the G2 unusable for narrative film so i was hoping that recording directly to microtrack would be better at least in terms of sound even with all the obvious head aches. I am of course only thinking about this as a plan B scenario, to get some sound, breathing, mowing, etc sounds and maybe 'some' dialogue, or in worst case good enough that it could be looped in at a later date. Than use a proper sound setup for any dialogue heavy scenes that i would set indoors or in a more controlled environments.

You won't find any lav to get the best dialog for narrative work, wired or wireless. On major features, actors wear lavs and transmitters, but most dialog that you hear comes from boom (and ADR). Lavs are a safeguard, and the audio they record used when nothing else is practical. I can tell when watching films (and even TV shows like Law and Order) when they've fallen back on lav audio.

The G2 systems have the least crunchy sound in the sub-$1k realm. Cheaper wireless systems have nasty compander artifacts. And while high-end systems like Lectro certainly have little compander-induced characteristics, it's the lav itself that contributes much to the "narrative" quality of the sound.

So when it comes to lavs, you aren't gaining that much by recording straight to the Microtrack.

Is it unrealistic that i could set the levels prior to a scene and than just let the recording run? I mean option b would be like you say do everything wire less and have a guarantied unusable track that is with G2 at least. Any other options I am not thinking about.

Unrealistic? No. Impractical? Absolutely. You're leaving your audio to blind faith. And to monitor wirelessly, you'll need to have a separate transmitter and receiver, on a separate frequency, for the second Microtrack. Now, you're stuffing a recorder and a transmitter into pockets. And at this point, you'll have two wireless systems running anyway, so you might as well just use them and cut out the Microtracks.

So in your opinion this would not work? When you say fight with each other are we talking static sound or just bad quality?

I mean noise. No dialog... just audio garbage.

 

[TNC]

Thanks really for taking the time, I appreciate it. I guess it was to good to be true.

 

[Steve House]

...
In any case I find the quality of the sound when using the G2 unusable for narrative film so i was hoping that recording directly to microtrack would be better at least in terms of sound even with all the obvious head aches. ...ty?

If you aren't getting "narrative film quality" sound with the G2 there must be something wrong with the way you're setting it up, placing the mic on the talent, or adjusting its feed to the camera or recorder. While the G2 would be considered prosumer or entry-level professional grade gear, if you're not getting accepatable sound with it in most circumstances, there's something wrong with the way you're using it because it's perfectly capable of giving fully professional results in the right hands.

 

[TNC]

If you aren't getting "narrative film quality" sound with the G2 there must be something wrong with the way you're setting it up, placing the mic on the talent, or adjusting its feed to the camera or recorder. While the G2 would be considered prosumer or entry-level professional grade gear, if you're not getting accepatable sound with it in most circumstances, there's something wrong with the way you're using it because it's perfectly capable of giving fully professional results in the right hands.

Well so far i have only managed to get a rather boxy sound from it, not bad really, but allot less good than hard wired. So what I am saying if some think laws wont give you a decent master track for narrative, the g2 does not even come even close.

 

[Steve House]

Well so far i have only managed to get a rather boxy sound from it, not bad really, but allot less good than hard wired. So what I am saying if some think laws wont give you a decent master track for narrative, the g2 does not even come even close.

It may be your mic placement on the talent or, if you're using the stock lavs, the mic capsule itself. Put an upgraded capsule on it and see if it improves before replacing the entire signal chain.

 

[TNC]

Using a B6, the sound just seems very thin and "electric" compared to running it wired.