May I get some advice please - sold my ex1 but have problems

A

andrew00

Well-known member
Hey,

So I sold my Ex1 today on ebay and the guy has emailed me saying he's not happy.

The camera has 102 hours on it, I know this is accurate b/c I've been the only one who has used it, and most the time it's sat in my camera bag.

However, he's trying to say that I've reset these hours and that I'm lying, basically that the camera has had a lot of usage, much more than 102, and I've somehow reset things to conceal this. His 'evidence' is that some of the labels on the back, i.e. over the job wheel and the camera/off/media switch are faded.

Now, firstly this is annoying/frustrating etc to be accused of lying. But the bigger issue here is what should I do about it? I know there IS a reset option in the hours meter but does this actually reset the cameras hours or what? I thought that was fixed.

Secondly how do I convince this dude without weakening my own hand, I get the impression he doesn't know about the camera etc. For example, he asked why the screen jumps a little when changing the format of the camera or going into expanded focus mode, I told him this is just the software but he has a distrusting tone.

The camera has been well cared for etc, the glass is perfect and there's no problems, he just seems to be ignorant of how the camera works and the whole hours thing is as insulting as it is ignorant.

What should I do please?
 
Did you represent the camera being in better visual condition than it is? Did you describe it accurately in the listing? Were there pictures included?

As long as you were 100% honest in the e-Bay listing, then that's the end of it, in my book.

All sales on e-Bay are final. All items I've ever seen (and I've not seen them all) are sold on an "as is" basis. The buyer knew he was buying a used camera, right?

The burden of proof that you may have been lying lies with the buyer--he has to prove you're lying. You do not have to prove you're telling the truth. It's a hard thing to swallow, being called a liar, but I repeat, if you've been totally honest in this sale, then you have nothing to fear.

Chalk this guy up as a kook and move on.
 
Yeah I described it accurate, the hours are accurate, the lens is in great condition etc, everything is how I described it. Now, I'll admit I didn't explicitly state 'some of the labels are a little faded' but firstly since I got my 5dmk2 I've not used my Ex1, hence the sale so it didn't enter into my reality, secondly it was described as good but used condition, i.e. no duplicity or misdirection intended etc.
 
Ok, here's my go at this situation. Faded labels on the back are an indication of long and/or heavy usage. However, it's NOT proof.

There can be quite a few reasons other than heavy/long usage for labels to fade. Sweaty fingers for example... or big fingers! Some people tend to press harder on buttons than others. Maybe the labels on the EX1 aren't very good inprinted or maybe you live in a country where humidity is higher?

Ah, look what I just found! According to the forumpost below 'lettering wearing off on the EX1 is well known'
http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/142/867543

Anyway, if your buyer is so convinced the camera has had more usage than you told him and he says you reset the counter to conceal this, he firstly has to make it clear how you would have done this and secondly that you actually did. Some faded labels are nowhere near something called 'proof', especially not regarding regarding this specific camcorder!

For all I know you cannot reset the system counter on the EX1 (You can reset the other counter by the way. Are you sure you supplied the correct counter?) Anyway, my bet is that the story ends there, since I don't know and couldn't find a way you can reset the system counter and your buyer probably has no idea too. Secondly, if it would be easy, instructions would be all over the big-bad-internet and make the value of the counter absolutely useless. Nobody would trust any second hand camcorder with low hours anymore and forums would be filled with 'stickies' that warn for this! Since both are obviously not the case I wouldn't worry too much.

Lastly, all you can do is just make clear to your buyer you didn't reset the meter and that the 'wear off' on the lettering (despite not being favorable) obviously doesn't proof or even assumes excess heavy usage (in relation to the counter) considering the apparant weak inprinting done by Sony on this model. Maybe for a next time, do explicit mention small cosmetic thingies but I see that already crossed your mind :)
 
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Tell him, you would not be able to reset the hour meter anyway, because they don't, for one, that defeats the whole purpose the the thing. And the labeling could get rubbed off in a case for all he knew. Tell him to quite bugging you and tell him to go buy a new one if he wants one with no marks of use. USED MEANS IT'S BEEN USED.

This guy is obviously a amateur, don't waste your time with his whining. You know that the camera is fine.
 
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I have my EX1 for over a year now. And total sys hours are 157. On the EX1 operating instructions on page 107 it says about Hours (Sys): "The non-resettable accumulated time of use is displayed".

I´m a very careful person with my camera, and I have to admit that some of the labels are faded, specifically the "ND Filters" label. So I can confirm the EX1 labels are not very good imprinted. About the screen jump, I read about this behavior of the EX1 even before I got my camera on some review article, but I don´t remember where.

Any way, my advice is: ask this guy to post his doubts on forums where some others EX1 users can clarify him. Good luck!
 
i have sold a LOT of ebay. i used to do it full time with pro audio gear. if the cam was accurately described, then the guy shouldn't be complaining. if he thinks there are problems based on the flickering screen etc., tell him to go to a pro video store and play with a new one. mine does that too. fading labels and chipped paint? yup. it's an ex1 thing. mine looks like a beat up rental cam yet it has never left my hands. if you sold it as described then he really has no ground to complain.

with that said, if he paid you via paypal and funded that payment with a credit card, you could end up getting screwed. regardless of who is right or wrong, he can do a chargeback on his card which will bypass all of paypal's policies and dispute resolution measures. they will yank the money from your paypal account. if the money has already been withdrawn, they can debit your checking account or charge one of your credit cards. paypal will NOT have your back and worse yet, if the guy then decides not to send the ex1 back to you, you will have to jump through hoops to try to track him down and get it back.

in other words, if you feel that you are dealing with a jerk who will never be happy with the cam, you may consider getting the cam back and reselling to someone else. bite the bullet. it sucks, but it doesn't suck as bad as it could.

next time, try craigslist first. find a local buyer with cash if you can. easy cheesy....
 
Assume your buyer isn't out just to screw you in the first place, but his complaints are (how amateurisch they may be) out of good faith.

Just explain the stuff said by me to him. You can always go the more drastic route of returning the camera.
 
Thanks for the replies, I spoke to the buyer before lunch on the phone and the following occurred.

- I told him that the hours can't be reset, they're absolute so I can't be lying about usage.
- I told him the screen slight judder was the software when changing modes and perfectly normal, I got him to watch the training dvd to confirm this occurs, as it does on the camera on there and said he can also go to shops to confirm.
- He claims the on off switch has a problem and doesn't work forcing him to take the battery out and put it back. I never once had any problem with this and afaik don't think the camera even does have this quirk. I believe that the guy doesn't know what he's doing and basically pushed the switch to MEDIA aka all on the right, and then tried to turn it back 'on' by pushing to the left, but actually just moved it to OFF, which is in the centre.
- He also mentioned there's a 1sec black flicker on a clip he recorded. Again I've never experienced this in all the time I had it. I used it last weekend in fact and the footage is fine, so I think he's ballsed this one up again somehow.
- For both those 'faults' I said he needs to prove their existence to me, he says he can't b/c they're random, but he's 'scared' they could happen at a crucial time.

So firstly if there are genuine faults, which I don't think they are, then of course I'll take the camera back. But I think the dude for some weird reason got cold feet (despite making multiple bids) or something and now wants to get out of it, which I don't want to do naturally.

His other point is that the labels on the back, aka the camera/off/media and those by the menu jog dial are fading. I explained this is a quirk of the ex1 paint and a common thing but he's claiming it wasn't as represented, which he claims was 'as new' on the ebay auction.

Firstly the ebay auction was 'great low usage', no mention of as new, clearly it's a used camera. Secondly the dude came round to my house and looked at it and signed a piece of paper saying he accepted it as seen. Now he didn't spend long here b/c he took a cab and made it wait outside, but that's his issue for not wanting to spend longer, not mine. Point is, he had a chance to look at all this stuff. Yes it is a little faded, but still readable and there wasn't a duplicity, esp when he can inspect it before taking it home.

Another reason he seems to be a fool is he was complaining it doesn't work with Adobe Premier Pro 2 and his plugs ins etc. Firstly, Prem2 was released in January 2006, the Ex1 in November 2007. Also, without being disrespectful, if he was a professional as he claims to be (9/10 years so he claims!) then I really doubt he'd be using 5 year old software.

Either way, at the end of the call I said I would email ebay and ask for advice after I'd eaten lunch. I come back from lunch and see he's opened a dispute case with ebay, so basically my sympathy is all gone for this guy and the gloves are off as it were!

So now I gotta prob waste a good few hours of my bank holiday easter sunday writing to ebay explaining how wrong this guy is! I hope ebay actually have sense.
 
During the part of the dispute process I would bring up the fact that the guy came to your house to inspect the camera... Not many buyers on Ebay have the opportunity to do that. He examined the camera in person and still decided to purchase it. I would make that the center of my "argument" along with the fact that the hours counters are not resetable.
 
or you can tell him bring the camera to a service center to check out.
IF the problem is real, you will pay for the repair (fair game).
If nothing is wrong with the camera, he will eat the service fee and leave you alone :cheesy:
 
Look, the guy can probably throw up another five complaints while I'm typing this post but you gotta make clear (for yourself, for him and now he's filed a dispute especially for Ebay) what's valid and what's not.

-The counter can't be reset. The camcorder had 102 hours. Period.
-Flickering screen while switching modes? Normal for the EX1(R) No argument at all
-Not compatible with Premiere Pro 2? Absolutely not relevant in this case
-Faded lettering on the back? You didn't advertise as new AND this guy picked it up in person and signed! That's the important bit. Make that clear to Ebay!

Sony acknowledged the weak inprinting on this camcorder by the way. It just peels off very, very quickly. Lastly it makes a big difference where cosmetic problems reside. A small scratch on the lens is totally different to a faded letter next to a button. Yet this guy uses this (small cosmetic thing) to support his claim of the camera not being as advertised. Maybe you could also stress the idiocy of this to Ebay?

Ebay archives auctions especially for cases like this: Double check: You didn't mention 'as new'? http://ebay.about.com/od/frequentlyaskedquestion1/f/faq_archived.htm

So assuming you really didn't mention 'as new' the only complaint that makes sense is the non-working on-off button. P.s it's a bit weird he comes up with this particular (big!) problem a day later after apparently trying out the camera earlier.

Anyway, if the on-off button is really faulty, you should offer him to take the camera back to you and get a refund. However it appears that the button being really broken is quite unlikely (he means he can't turn it off at all???) So his complaint has probably more to do with the bad design of this button. Yes, it can be difficult to turn it off because it slides past the middle position. But that's nowhere near the claim of it being broken!

/edit
Oh yeah, the guy also complained about a 1 sec black flicker... Just let him send you the file (dropbox / yousendit). If he suggests there's something wrong with the camera he has to make some effort to either reproduce the problem or come to the conclusion it was just a 1 in a million (or maybe just bollocks...)
 
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legaldvs said:
or you can tell him bring the camera to a service center to check out.
IF the problem is real, you will pay for the repair (fair game).
If nothing is wrong with the camera, he will eat the service fee and leave you alone :cheesy:
Click to expand...

Having sold a bunch of cameras on ebay i can attest to the fact that there are certain types of buyers that are extremely anal about cosmetics or any detail that THEY deem an issue . So I state every possible issue, no matter how insignificant, that I think an anal buyer might have a problem with flat out so I don't stress over something coming back at me after the sale. If it loses me a couple of bucks so be it. This has made ebaying less stressful and less time consuming. I have been happy with the purchase price of all my sales and I have 100% positive feedback.

Unfortunately you have found that rare buyer who has found issue with some things I would not have noticed and who actually saw the cam before buying, signed off and is still not happy. I sympathize.

The post by legaldvs is right on. I would offer that option just to quicken the end of this, (hopefully).

And make sure you lock him out from bidding on any other item you might sell in the future becasue he sounds like a special breed of trouble. I wish you the best.
 
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You may also want to mention that the camera works and that he could be shooting right now if he were not busy arguing.
 
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