Matte Box rip off scandel ?

bgundu said:
I used to wonder about Matte boxes many years ago until I actually used one. To achieve nice DOF you have to really open the aperture. When the on camera ND filters are to agressive, you have to either use a screw on filter, or a square one that fits into a matte box. Trust me, you don't want to waste time removing your HVX lens hood to change a screw on filter. The matte box solution is a very convenient way to quickly change your setup. As a photographer, I never leave home without my filters. A polorizer is an essential tool, and should be part of your video gear. There are many options and price ranges when it comes to matte boxes, so don't feel like you have to get the most expensive one. But you really do get what you pay for. If you're using it almost everyday, (which also means you're making money) I can't imagine anyone skimping on this. If you think the boxes are too expensive, check out the prices on the filters themselves. But the nice thing is, it's an invesment that will last you many years.

I would say the Vocus brand is the middle level and the nicer stuff is from Petroff or Chrosziel. We'll leave follow focus prices for another discussion.
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Despite what've I've posted, down the road, when I'm doing paying gigs, I'll probably be using mb's and filters, like the regular pros, if only for the sake of getting the job done quickly and well.

As one who is still planning their first mini indie project, it's a matter of priority. I've still yet to buy the right mics and lights, and surely a mb is down the list of essentials.

I'll see if I could test drive one. If it works as advertise, I'll be happy to change my position.
 
Bracketing is great for still photography, but has limited or no application in narrative filmmaking. It costs literally nothing to repeat a few frames of film or digital media memory for stills safety and post-production latitude.

Cinematographers work much harder to nail exposure before the camera rolls an inch of film. Repeat takes are reserved for performance and blocking issues almost exclusively. We're recording thousands of images in the time a stills photographer might record a few.

You're trying to extend your (perhaps very extensive) experience in one discipline to two entirely disparate crafts that are based on some common principles, cinematography and stills work.

I respectfully recommend that you get some time under your belt in the crafts of film or digital video before decidedly lambasting proven tools and methods. It just comes across as ignorant.

e
 
From what I gathered from the scattered topics of the postings the Matte Box does this-
It lets you use FILTERS
It blocks light from your lens.

That's pretty simple. Makes sense.

If you have the budget a matte box can be useful if you don't have the cash be resourceful!

You can get a filter holder pretty cheap.
You can build a FLARE STOPPING DEVICE with black foam core and Gaffer tape- to use when you have serious flare issues that the stock hood can't handle.

Use either only when needed.

As for the other crazy stuff...


Stop trying to "LOOK COOL" or "BE COOL". You're not. Rock stars and Actors are cool. You're the film geek with a camera. You get to hang out with the cool people but don't be fooled into thinking you're one of them. You're not. You're the enemy. They only like you because you can make them look good. Do otherwise and you will pay.:)

If you want to be cool better start taking acting or guitar lessons!

If you looking cool is the only reason people will work with you.. re-write or find a new script.
Hehehehehe
 
holditnowfilms said:
From what I gathered from the scattered topics of the postings the Matte Box does this-
It lets you use FILTERS
It blocks light from your lens.

That's pretty simple. Makes sense.

If you have the budget a matte box can be useful if you don't have the cash be resourceful!

You can get a filter holder pretty cheap.
You can build a FLARE STOPPING DEVICE with black foam core and Gaffer tape- to use when you have serious flare issues that the stock hood can't handle.

Use either only when needed.

As for the other crazy stuff...


Stop trying to "LOOK COOL" or "BE COOL". You're not. Rock stars and Actors are cool. You're the film geek with a camera. You get to hang out with the cool people but don't be fooled into thinking you're one of them. You're not. You're the enemy. They only like you because you can make them look good. Do otherwise and you will pay.:)

If you want to be cool better start taking acting or guitar lessons!

If you looking cool is the only reason people will work with you.. re-write or find a new script.
Hehehehehe
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Easy, Holditnowfilm.

I expressed my opinion, that's all. I qualified my statements with admissions that I'm not a pro, and don't work in the industry.

No, I've never used a graduated filter, nor used a mattebox.

I'm basing my arguments on my logic, and already said I'll change my opinion, when given a convincing argument. Bob Gundu has tried it and liked the Matte Box. He was convincing in the need for external ND filters. If you've read my answer to Bob, I said I'd try it... and will probably end up agreeing with him.

As for the "looking cool" thing.... that's so far from the truth I won't comment. I promise you my admission that my volunteering with Shaw Cable Community Channel is EMBARRASSING... it's not a boast. But it's the closest experience I had with pro equiptment... and even then, they were ancient Umatic tape machines.

There's a lot of pros on this forum: the last thing I want to do is tangle with them on facts, because I don't have a leg to stand on.

I once voiced my opinion on laser disk based cams... wasn't convinced of their reliablity. NBCshooter asked me how I can conclude that.... saying that none of disk/cams at his work had failed to his knowledge. How can I argue with that?

I had to concede to NBCshooter's view. It's based on logic. He's right, I don't know about disk/cams, never having used one.

You're obviously a pro, so I'll concede this one too.:)

Thanks for the lessons on being cool, by the way.
 
overlandfilms said:
I respectfully recommend that you get some time under your belt in the crafts of film or digital video before decidedly lambasting proven tools and methods. It just comes across as ignorant.

e
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Ouch.

Well, you're right on that score.

I'll keep my opinion to myself until I get some professional experience.


:)
 
Please consider that it's a mattebox salesman trying to convince you that you need a mattebox.

Ulterior motives - me?! Naw, never...

:Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)

e
 
stabwound said:
A lot of digital still photographers do exactly that to boost dynamic range. Some will shoot for hightlights only, mid values and shadow details and combine. Sounds like a lot of work... but it's pretty easy. For the time taken, it's satisfying.
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This is generally done, if combined, for purpose of creating HDR images, which is something no video camera can achieve (except maybe the Genesis, and I'm not even sure on that).

What can achieve said HDR image...35mm film.

Matte boxes are great tools, and along with filters you can take your cinematography game up a level.
 
overlandfilms said:
Bracketing is great for still photography, but has limited or no application in narrative filmmaking.
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The technique he's talking about isn't bracketing, which is used to ensure a correct exposure. He's overcoming the inherently limited dynamic range of today's CCDs by taking the image twice and then combining the portions of the two images where there are details. I agree that this technique has limited use in most video situations.

--Jeremy
 
holditnowfilms said:
If you looking cool is the only reason people will work with you.. re-write or find a new script.
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While I'll admit I have not/am not/nor will ever be cool, I gotta take issue with you on that last sentence. Perception is reality. Especially when working with most clients because they have NO clue, most of the time. So if you walk in with a ginormous rig they are going to be more impressed than if you came in with a camera like the HVX on its own. Granted, the mattebox could be made of card board and have no filters in it, it makes no difference to the client. All they see is something big and fancy looking. In turn that makes them feel more confident in you and are more likely to hire you again in the future. Its silly but true. I call it the "Blinky Light Factor". A wall of blinky lights that do nothing will dazzle a client faster than a vanilla box that can do everything. So, things like matte boxes, dollies, SteadiCams, etc have a huge psychological impact on your client.

Having said all that, those are NOT reasons to be using a matte box. But it sure as hell is a nice perk. :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)
 
aelent said:
While I'll admit I have not/am not/nor will ever be cool, I gotta take issue with you on that last sentence. Perception is reality. Especially when working with most clients because they have NO clue, most of the time. So if you walk in with a ginormous rig they are going to be more impressed than if you came in with a camera like the HVX on its own. Granted, the mattebox could be made of card board and have no filters in it, it makes no difference to the client. All they see is something big and fancy looking. In turn that makes them feel more confident in you and are more likely to hire you again in the future. Its silly but true. I call it the "Blinky Light Factor". A wall of blinky lights that do nothing will dazzle a client faster than a vanilla box that can do everything. So, things like matte boxes, dollies, SteadiCams, etc have a huge psychological impact on your client.

Having said all that, those are NOT reasons to be using a matte box. But it sure as hell is a nice perk. :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)
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Then there is this Matte Box, priced right and impressive. http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=50411

David :laugh:
 
I have to agree John. The Matte Box makes any camera look cool and professional. I like portability and have a cinetactics MatteBlox with an oversized French Flag for my DVX. Not the cheapest and not the best but it tucks away nicely.
 
aelent said:
While I'll admit I have not/am not/nor will ever be cool, I gotta take issue with you on that last sentence. Perception is reality. Especially when working with most clients because they have NO clue, most of the time. So if you walk in with a ginormous rig they are going to be more impressed than if you came in with a camera like the HVX on its own. Granted, the mattebox could be made of card board and have no filters in it, it makes no difference to the client. All they see is something big and fancy looking. In turn that makes them feel more confident in you and are more likely to hire you again in the future. Its silly but true. I call it the "Blinky Light Factor". A wall of blinky lights that do nothing will dazzle a client faster than a vanilla box that can do everything. So, things like matte boxes, dollies, SteadiCams, etc have a huge psychological impact on your client.

Having said all that, those are NOT reasons to be using a matte box. But it sure as hell is a nice perk. :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)
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Well I have to admit my experience is not corporate so I don't know about these issues. So I will bow down to that being another reason. I do understand silly. Maybe I will put a panavision logo on my black foamcore matte box! Couldn't hurt.

I know of FCP based post houses that buy a cheap AVID DV package to have AVID on the screens during meetings with clients. So this logo lust must creep into all areas.


PS- STABWOUND I didn't have a problem with your post I was just trying to figure out the mattebox question myself.
 
aelent said:
While I'll admit I have not/am not/nor will ever be cool, I gotta take issue with you on that last sentence. Perception is reality. Especially when working with most clients because they have NO clue, most of the time. So if you walk in with a ginormous rig they are going to be more impressed than if you came in with a camera like the HVX on its own. Granted, the mattebox could be made of card board and have no filters in it, it makes no difference to the client. All they see is something big and fancy looking. In turn that makes them feel more confident in you and are more likely to hire you again in the future. Its silly but true. I call it the "Blinky Light Factor". A wall of blinky lights that do nothing will dazzle a client faster than a vanilla box that can do everything. So, things like matte boxes, dollies, SteadiCams, etc have a huge psychological impact on your client.

Having said all that, those are NOT reasons to be using a matte box. But it sure as hell is a nice perk. :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)
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Very good post. Agreed.
 
Hey guys, yes I definitely can see 4mats point, I mean, a chroziel over in Australia is $2200, I mean for a bit of mild steel or whatever they're made of, with a couple of hinges, yikes! And yes I still want one, because I do believe they are a necessary evil.
But a question, as I haven't yet got my rig, I'm on a long journey of saving $ at the moment, but using the barn doors, does this mean you need a different approach to on-camera lighting, do the doors cast a shadow, and also, what about the onboard mic, or even if you fit a good shotgun mic, does it at all do any weird things with the sound? And therefore you should only think of offcamera sound and lighting when using the mb?:dankk2:
 
The doors do not vignette unless you close them in so tight. You need an external mic for any serious work. You want the mic as close as possible to the talent / subject. The onboard is crap and good for maybe ambient pick-up (IMO).

Without a MB you an Flag off any flares (and even with a MB)
 
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