Matte Box + filters vs Singh-Ray filter

H

HansSteinert

Well-known member
I've got a Canon 60D. I need ND filters, and I know they aren't cheap. I was going to grab the Singh-Ray 77mm thin mount ND filter + stop up adapters for all my lenses. It would run about $430 total. However, something just came to mind. If I can find a matte box + matte box filters for only a hundred or 2 more, perhaps I should just go with that, as the investment would stay applicable even if I upgrade my gear.

So, my question is: how much does a decent Matte Box + filters cost? I don't need the absolute top of the line, but I also don't want junk. How much are we talking, and do you guys have any recommendations? Finally, would you go with the ND filters that screw on your lenses like the Singh-Ray, or a Matte Box kit?

Thanks in advance.
 
screw on work just the same and are a lot cheaper. A matte box is pretty versatile but if you have the lens hood and a screw on ND you will get the same look. The vari-ND idea has a few draw backs that affect image quality and I've gotten rid of mine and just use straight ND's.

Do a search here and there are lots of postings on the Vari-ND problems.
 
Thanks. I'll research it. Out of curiosity, how much would a matte box with filters cost on average? Doesn't need to be the absolute top of the line, but I don't want trash. Curious at what performance:price ratio deals there are in the matte box market.
 
I don't know about the singh-ray one, but the LCW fader ND is very limited: it's a breeze to use, and image quality at short focal lengths is fine (except it's not neutral: it has a green cast), but anything above 100mm will be destroyed by this filter:
http://www.similaar.com/foto/lenstests/lenstestsn.html

maybe the singh-ray one is better, but I doubt it will be as good as standard ND filters, at least on long lenses

if I had the money, I'd go for the matte box; as I don't, I tried the cokin-P route, was disappointed again (didn't try the formatt hi-tech cokin-P filters, though), and stuck to screw-in filters (just yesterday I spend an hour making matching marks on all of them so I can put them on and off faster; it helps, but it's still a lot more cumbersome than a matte box)
 
NormanBates said:
I don't know about the singh-ray one, but the LCW fader ND is very limited: it's a breeze to use, and image quality at short focal lengths is fine (except it's not neutral: it has a green cast), but anything above 100mm will be destroyed by this filter:
http://www.similaar.com/foto/lenstests/lenstestsn.html

maybe the singh-ray one is better, but I doubt it will be as good as standard ND filters, at least on long lenses

if I had the money, I'd go for the matte box; as I don't, I tried the cokin-P route, was disappointed again (didn't try the formatt hi-tech cokin-P filters, though), and stuck to screw-in filters (just yesterday I spend an hour making matching marks on all of them so I can put them on and off faster; it helps, but it's still a lot more cumbersome than a matte box)
Click to expand...

What standard ND filters are you using that are really neutral?
I found out that most of the time I am ok with an ND8 for bright sunlight, but the cheap eBay ones exhibit a terrible magenta color cast that makes it a pain trying to match the footage of naked cam to the scenes with ND on even when I try to set white balance.
I was tempted by the Fader ND but again color cast puts me off.
 
I use the cheapest tiffen screw-ins in bhphoto

as you can see from my tests in that link, they're not completely neutral, but they're very close (specially when compared to the fader); and they don't affect image sharpness (well, the .9 does, but not much)

for 77mm, they're about $50 each; for 67mm, around $25
 
thekreative, are there screw on alternatives to the singh ray vari-nd that don't have those problems you talked about? It doesn't have to contain multiple f-stops, it can just be a solid ND sheet. I just want results with the least coloring/softening distortion so I can shoot outside at a low fstop at 1/50 during the day.
 
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Right on.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/729107-REG/Tiffen_W77INDNDKT_77mm_Indie_Neutral_Density.html

Is this what you're talking about? Will this have hardly any noticeable softening, vignetting, and color loss, even on wide angle lenses? I don't mind paying a little extra for it to work well.

or this by itself:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/533250-REG/Tiffen_77HTND12_77mm_Digital_HT_High.html

Would probably be all I need.

Or I can get 3 for the same price:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/674665-REG/Tiffen_77NDK3_77mm_Digital_Neutral_Density.html
 
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is the color cast you refer to where you loose the skin tones and people look corpse like?

Would using 3 screw on filters of differeing ND values solve this problem instead of using the VariND that I have recently been trying out
 
@HansSteinert: some tiffen filters are better and more expensive than others; whenever you read "water white", that means "big money"; the ones I have are the cheap ones

to be even more precise, the ones you can see in my test are exactly these three (they're 67mm instead of 77mm, and I bought them before the kits were available):
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/58588-REG/Tiffen_67ND3_67mm_Neutral_Density_ND.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/58652-REG/Tiffen_67ND6_67mm_Neutral_Density_ND.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/58714-REG/Tiffen_67ND9_67mm_Neutral_Density_ND.html

@tikigod19: yes, using different ND filters of different strength instead of an ND fader largely solves this issue; you will run into color cast problems again if you stack too many filters on top of each other, but if you get .3+.6+.9+1.2 you shouldn't ever need to stack more than 2 filters
in any case, other things can generate corpse looking people, like shooting too flat (the new Technicolor picture profile doesn't have this problem, previous ultra flat picture styles did)
 
np stacking couple tiffen glass, but the cheapest plastic ebay filters you should never stack, it gets nasty
 
I have both screw on ND's and Lee 4X4 matte box filters. If I want to shoot really lightweight, I use the screw ons, but for important stuff, I prefer the matte box and Lee's. better quality, no color tone issues, BUT...it adds weight and bulk
 
I tried the cokin P system, but with cheap resin filters (from Fotodiox) that turned out to be unsurprisingly unspectacular (they're also in my tests)

the best ND filters for cokin P are supposed to be the Formatt HiTech ones

I thought about getting those, but decided it was best to stick to the screw-in filters I already have (screw-in filters are painful to swap, but I can use my lovely rubber hood that is a breeze to carry around; the hood situation in the cokin P system did not satisfy me at all, so it's a trade-off with advantages for both systems)
 
B+W ND filters are top notch, I have stacked up to three of them with great results.
Cokin filters are horrible. Make your imaging soft and with horrible color shifts.
 
NormanBates said:
@tikigod19: yes, using different ND filters of different strength instead of an ND fader largely solves this issue; you will run into color cast problems again if you stack too many filters on top of each other, but if you get .3+.6+.9+1.2 you shouldn't ever need to stack more than 2 filters
Click to expand...

can you recommend any specific ones? Is it still a case of buying the filter in the size of your largest thread and then buying step down adapters to attach them to smaller threaded lenses?

Martin Oller mentions stacking cheap plastic filters, I assume he means the filters themselves and not the step up rings... is there any issue stacking those?
 
I use the cheapest tiffen screw-ins, and I'm very happy with the IQ myself; YMMV

yes, get them big enough for your largest lens (or even plan ahead if you can) and buy step up rings (I use cheap ones from ebay)

I used to stack step up rings, but I don't anymore, as it makes the process of changing lenses and filters even more cumbersome (say lens with 55mm thread, step up to 58mm, then 62mm, then 67mm, then 67mm filter --> recipe for nightmares, you spend half your life screwing and unscrewing stuff, because the one you want to come off is the last one that comes off and you have to take them all out then screw them again... why're you making me remember this? those step up rings are $2 each on ebay!)

it may also vignette on very wide lenses

in fact, my filter set is 67mm, and I just bought a bunch of 67mm lens caps and intend to glue those step-up rings in the front of my lenses and never take them off again
 
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