Matt, Oleg, Ty? Help Advice?

Jeremy Ordan

Jeremy Ordan

Major Contributor
OK, long story very short. Went by my local rental location to pick up the microphone I had put on hold to rent, and they double booked it (Lectrosonics UCR 190 UHF). Anger sets in and then they tell me that while they cannot supply me with what I want, they will give me this incredible deal on the ME66. I argue because I am also shooting interiors so they throw in the ME64 for a grand total of $20. $20 vs. $120, I can live with that, plus since I was curious about the 66/64 it figured out to be a nice chance to try it out.

The ME/66 is hot. The output is loud and while it is thin compared with most other units I have tried, the overall sound quality is not bad. The ME64 on the other hand, well inside we got a ton of reverb on it. To my untrained ears (I am no Ty, Oleg, or Matt) it sounded no different than the ME66 indoors, and I really couldn't tell the difference. I was having such a hard time with this that finally we just put an old AT55 (garbage $60 mic) on the pole and got audio that with a little work in post will sound better.

Obviously my concerns about the ME66/64 are closed. I'm just not happy with the sound. The 66 wasn't as bad as everyone wants to make it out to be, but the 64 is not suitable for interiors like people claim it is.

That being said, if you had $1000, and only $1000 what would you invest in for a sound set up? I was thinking the AT4073a for exteriors and the Oktava for interiors (based off Matt's suggestions). Just wanted opinions from others. $1000 max though, thanks! I know you guys work with stuff much better than this budget allows, but I respect your opinions so... that's my question.
 
the me 64 is cardioid mike , so if you have returning sound in the room from the walls and floor it would sound not less worse then the shotgun , sorry no miracles .
now for what to buy - remember , you need wind protection , some rycote/ kteck suspension + zeppelins +fur - buy it used - i, no need to buy new if it in good shape - so that about 200-350
the octava is 200 , so you stay with 450-550 , the 4073 is nice , you need attenuation cable( 10 db would be enough) , the mike is to hot for dvx straight forward
or to look for used 416 on ebay or check with Dave in Coffey sound , the have t version in used section( you need 48 to 12ab converter for that one if use camera power .
 
Man I'm laughing that you put me, Oleg, and Ty in the same boat... even though those other guys disagree on stuff this would have 'em saying, "who the hell is THAT other guy?" Those guys are pros... I'm just some dude who likes sound.

I dig the hell out of the 416 and if you want to blur your choices more I have an AKG ULS system that I really like. When I bash the me66 it's not that it's a bad mic... it's that there are several choices that are much better in comparison.

For anybody who is curious, the AKG ULS system is modular (which is what FIRST drew me to the me66 before the sound repelled me)... AND it's full and rich like a 416. So you can have a full, fat sound in a long or short gun... and you can also have an omni (not for me), cardioid (got it), and hyper cardioid (got it)... all from the same ultra-quiet PS.

If anybody decides to check this system out I can tell you that www.rvacanada.com (email cavell at rvacanada dot com for current prices) is the ONLY place to buy high-end AKG mics... the cheaper blue-line is usually cheaper there too, but not by a big savings off Trew... but the HIGH-END AKG stuff is WAY under Trew's prices. (You gotta' support our sponsors when you can and on stuff that they don't carry I'll always steer you right... I've been plugging the hell out of Trew for years and they've never so much as thanked me...) RVA will beat Trew's price on a 480b/ck69 by at least $200. This is still a high-end route though... even from RVA you're lookin' at a +/- $1K mic... depending on currency exchange... but the cool thing is the cardioid and hyper are only another $180 each after that... for very high-end mics!
 
did you earn some money from the sound Matt ?
if yes - you are a pro .
about uls - indeed excellent , but little of your price range , if you can find used and not abused why not .check the tappers forum , these guys like the AKg and octavas before they scratch some money for Schoeps and Neumanns , you can find good deals there on second hand stuff .usially it not abused since people only recording concerts with these mikes .
 
oleg said:
did you earn some money from the sound Matt ?
if yes - you are a pro .
about uls - indeed excellent , but little of your price range , if you can find used and not abused why not .check the tappers forum , these guys like the AKg and octavas before they scratch some money for Schoeps and Neumanns , you can find good deals there on second hand stuff .usially it not abused since people only recording concerts with these mikes .
Click to expand...

I make money doing sound... but I like to be known for being "nobody".

"Me? I'm nobody."

If you know the old Henry Fonda / Terrence Hill movie then you get it...
 
Really good quote, but Matt, I appreciate your opinion. I kinda consider myself where you were with audio two or three years ago. I appreciate your posts and would rather just ask for your opinion so I don't spend thousands repeating the same mistakes you made.

For example, this weekend showed me more about the ME/66 64 than hearing a thousand head to head samples.

Thanks for the help everyone... looks like it's going to be an expensive fall.
 
Matt,

Now you have me interested in the blue line series. I like the fact that it is modular, which is what originally drew me to the ME series. I am assuming, and please let me know if I am correct, that the hyper capsule would work for interiors, and the cardiod would work for exteriors. With this sort of set up, what shockmount and wind jammer would you suggest?

I know this isn't lord of the mics with one mic to rule them all, I completely understand that, but for someone starting to build a kit, I'm asking for advice.
 
The great thing about the blue-line hyper or cardioid is you can use the same K-Tek mount and Rycote BBG/Jammer that I suggest for the Oktava.

Here's the bottom line on the blue-line... the ck93 totally ROCKS... that's a really good hyper and it's been used in many hollywood films. Glen Trew said that it's Peter Weller's mic for Bad Boys II and Pearl Harbor at least... he said it's a favorite car-rig mic too. I heard the ck93 and I ALMOST went with the blue-line AKG. I liked the size and bayonet mounting and that you can get an active cable which turns those heads into oversized lavs (of sorts)... meaning you can stick that mic head in places no other mic will go. Maybe that'll be of value and maybe it won't... I like options.

Okay the rest of the bottom line is that the ck98 shotgun cap isn't as great as the hyper... I'd say it's STILL a lot better and more natural sounding then the ME line... but that's the only reason I went with the ULS instead of BLUE. I actually think I like the ck93 hyper better then my ck63 hyper... but the rest of the ULS caps are pretty much better then the blue line caps. So does that help you at all? You see where I was at your exact point in deciding and I just didn't want to buy MORE mics that I MIGHT later want to sell (at another modest loss)... so it's possible that I would have been 100% happy with the blue-line series... and I'd bet my testicals that any cap in that series will blow away any cap in the ME series... but in the end the extra hundreds were worth it for me just for piece of mind.

So I could confidently recommend that line to you, but with the understanding that I've only listened to them and haven't bought any... but if it makes you feel any better the more I use my AKG system I did get the more l like it... and for me that is rare. Normally the more I use a mic the more I want whatever costs more... and with this system I've been enjoying the sound more and thinking about mics less.

Oh, and hypers = interior and (some exterior) dialog... cardioid = music... short shotgun / long shotgun = exterior dialog... unless a lav is preferred due to circumstances. A cardioid is about the last mic you need (and omni is even LESS useful)... so you'd be getting the system MAINLY for the hyper and shotgun. If you have only a hyper and shotgun then you can do interior and exterior... add a lav and a stick mic and you have everything needed... except wireless... after that all else is chasing desires for improvement, not needs.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.
 
For the blue line, I'm not seeing the shot gun mic. I've tried to do a couple of searches, but have not found that one... Any advice?
 
OK Matt, one more pickle to throw into the mix. If it was your money, would you go for the Blue Line with the hyper & shotgun or the AT4073a & Oktava ME012?

By the way, thanks for all the help and advice, it is really appreciated.
 
That would be a tough call... If it was JUST the ck98 and 4073a then it would be easy. 4073a.

I think the ck93 is probably a better hyper (and overall better mic) then the Oktava... but if those were my choices I'd have to take the 4073a and Oktava.

There are times when I use 2 mics, just because I can and I'm split on which one I think will sound the best... even after testing. That's the achilles heel of any modular system versus multiple mics. Even if you have all the caps you can still only use one mic at a time.

In the spirit of full disclosure I should add that part of the reason I was first drawn to AKG is because it's not so common. I'd had a 416 (and liked it) but I wanted more options... and the low-cut and output options were appealing to me (3 choices each)... and I already really liked the sound of the mic. So had you said you were considering the ULS series I would have easily said ULS... because on top of sounding great, and having so many variables for output... it's still not so common. The Blue-Line has a 75hz cut and -10db pad... but they can't be combined. Still I'm sure the AKG Blue-Line is a decent system... but I just don't know that I'd choose it over the 4073a and Oktava... I don't have enough experience with the Blue-Line to make a really good comparison judgement. It's possible that the Blue-Line would blow me away in comparison to the 4073a and Oktava (which I'm very familiar)... but I strongly doubt it. So why did I take that same chance with the ck69 and 416 (which was already proven)? I didn't! I had 'em both and tested them together a lot. If the 416 would have had all the output options that the ck69 has I might have kept it. To my ears the AKG mics are warmer then almost anything else out there... which could be bad if you couldn't switch that warmth out in bass-heavy environments. I could blather on about this a lot and I'm starting to talk in circles... so I'm sorry if I confused you further.

For YOUR situation you'd probably be safest in going the proven route... If I'd bought the Blue-Line system my advice could be different... but the gamble is whether or not the ck98 is better or equal to the 4073a... and I highly doubt that it's better.
 
oleg said:
the 4073 is nice , you need attenuation cable( 10 db would be enough) , the mike is to hot for dvx straight"

After reading almost every post in the sound forum regarding the 4073 this is the first comment I've heard about using a 10 db attenuation cable. I've read that the 4073 should be dialed down gain wise at the camera but I'm not familiar with using a attenuation cable.

Could you please explain a little more? Is this like using a 10 db pad? Is there an advantage to using a 10 db cable instead of adjusting gain at the camera? Do you have to do both? And why does the bread always land on the kitchen floor peanut butter side down? Sorry....one question too many.

And thanks for all of your guys posts. I've learned a lot from them.
Click to expand...
 
this is the pad insid the cable connector , not cable it self ,
the camera gain is adjustable after you overload the preamp , so you might be good on the miter but with no usable signal, yes you need both pad the signal first , calibrate good level recording after .

because people drink Merfies instead Guinness ,thats for the last one
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top