Matching FS700+O7Q & F5

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Pulldownclaw

Member
I've got a shoot coming up out of state and contemplating renting an F5 as a "B" cam to my FS700+07Q. The other option is to fly with 2 FS700+O7Q packages.

Shooting 4k2HD on the 07Q. I will be handing the footage off, and I don't trust the people editing with sLog2, so will be shooting REC-709 (preferably ITU-709).

I've looked at the F5 manual online and can't tell if it has ITU-709 or not, it looks like the F55 does.

Any advice on how to match them up? Thanks for the input.
 
OK, I have done this before. Realize that the FS700 is going to be MUCH sharper than the F5 for the most part. That was probably the biggest thing when I've done this stuff.

The F5 has more gamma options than you can throw a stick at. More than any other camera other than the F5. Yes it can do Rec709. If you can line up a comparison with two 17 or 24 inch monitors beforehand you can set the F5 to 709 and the FS700 as well and use the internal paint settings on the F5 to match them as close as possible. That or deal with it in post.
 
slipstrea808 said:
OK, I have done this before. Realize that the FS700 is going to be MUCH sharper than the F5 for the most part. That was probably the biggest thing when I've done this stuff.
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Huh? I have an F5 and an FS7Q. The F5 beats the FS7Q, hands down...provided you run the 4k hack.
 
Sharper in my experience. But this should not be a problem. It wont be crazy or anything.. And if you soften up the FS700 in post you should be fine.
 
I highly recommend to run an elaborate test in REC-709 on the FS7007Q if you haven't done already. The REC-709 still suffers from magenta edges in highlight and crushed blacks due to a too steep gamma. You will decide it by yourself but I found REC-709 from the 7Q not useful.
 
Clermond said:
I highly recommend to run an elaborate test in REC-709 on the FS7007Q if you haven't done already. The REC-709 still suffers from magenta edges in highlight and crushed blacks due to a too steep gamma. You will decide it by yourself but I found REC-709 from the 7Q not useful.
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+1. I've run into the very nasty magenta highlight issue in 7Q Rec 709 which makes far from ideal. S-Log 2 is the only good option from the 7Q right now. But yeah... Not having a baked in look can be inconvenient, hence the FS7. If you want to avoid nasty surprises, both cameras should be S-Log.
 
gene_can_sing said:
+1. I've run into the very nasty magenta highlight issue in 7Q Rec 709 which makes far from ideal. S-Log 2 is the only good option from the 7Q right now. But yeah... Not having a baked in look can be inconvenient, hence the FS7. If you want to avoid nasty surprises, both cameras should be S-Log.
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Exactly right. No such problem with the F5. If you can't expect CC in post, the F5 hypergammas, recording to XAVC gives exceptional results. If you can go to a grade in post, use Slog3.cine and do the best you can to match the FS7Q to the F5 footage.
 
cuervo said:
If you can go to a grade in post, use Slog3.cine and do the best you can to match the FS7Q to the F5 footage.
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The F5 does S-Log 2 right? Maybe use S-Log 2 for both cameras. I did a side by side with the A7s and the 7Q, and the S-Logs were very similar on both cameras, so the F5 shouldn't be that different.

Philip Bloom says that he uses the A7s as B-Cam to his F55 and he says they match very, very well, and I would assume he uses S-Log 3 on the F55.
 
My whole point is that I don't have trust in the post side, so sLog2 is out. I have to hand off the footage as close as i can get it to my liking. The shots will be controlled lighting interviews, so I may just go with the 2 FS700Q's, and watch my highlights.
 
If it's interviews, AVCHD should probably be fine. I would test the 7Q Rec. 709 before you commit to it, because besides the pink highlights, it's a very crushed image. I would use internal AVCHD profiles over 7Q Rec. 709.
 
gene_can_sing said:
I would use internal AVCHD profiles over 7Q Rec. 709.
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I second that. There is no real benefit from REC709 (same as ITU-709) on the 7Q.
It's another disappointment from Convergent-Design beside the one year lack of promised features
that there is only RAW and sLog2, nothing "ready to edit".
 
gene_can_sing said:
The F5 does S-Log 2 right? Maybe use S-Log 2 for both cameras. I did a side by side with the A7s and the 7Q, and the S-Logs were very similar on both cameras, so the F5 shouldn't be that different.

Philip Bloom says that he uses the A7s as B-Cam to his F55 and he says they match very, very well, and I would assume he uses S-Log 3 on the F55.
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Sony recommends people use the Slog3.cine s-gamut with the F5. They have a lot of available LOOK profiles for grading Slog3.cine. In fact, Sony also recommends that if you shoot Slog2, that you apply this LUT to convert it to Slog3.Cine, then apply their LOOK profile for Slog3.cine.
http://community.sony.com/sony/atta...r-camera-F5-F55/22185/1/SLog3SG3toSG3Cine.zip
Kinda confusing, I know.
 
Hey Cuervo,

That's pretty awesome that you got an F5! When did you get it and what made you decide to pull the trigger? How are you liking it? Did you buy it new or used? How does the XAVC internal compare to the 7Q?

I was leaning towards getting an F5 as well, but then the FS7 came out and because of costs, I might just get the FS7.
 
gene_can_sing said:
Hey Cuervo,

That's pretty awesome that you got an F5! When did you get it and what made you decide to pull the trigger? How are you liking it? Did you buy it new or used? How does the XAVC internal compare to the 7Q?

I was leaning towards getting an F5 as well, but then the FS7 came out and because of costs, I might just get the FS7.
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Hey Gene...
Yeah, i thought long and hard about it before pulling the trigger. The announcement of the FS7 really put a hiccup in my plans. But, in the end, I decided to make the plunge. Bought the F5 new and found an "almost new" R5. I'm practically up to speed on the F5, it's pretty different from the FS700. First off, I will admit to hacking it to get 4k on XAVC. It already did 4k in Sony RAW. The XAVC codec is astonishing. Images are really nice, no CA or fringing. Hypergamma 7 is all I've used, but, at this, it shines. And to myeye, totally unscientific, but the images are even better than the FS7Q combo. All I have is Canon glass, and these lenses work really well on the F5 with the Optitek adapter. As for Sony RAW....I'm just blown away. Sony RAW is much more workable than the C-D DNG cinema RAW. It's a single file that runs thru the Sony RAW Viewer and grades beautifully. It's less sensitive to underexposure, but, still produces grain when underexposed. The grain structure is finer than with the O7Q, almost film-like. I love the form factor of the F5, albeit a bit heavier than my FS700. This cam really suits my needs for a tripod mounted, hi-res, film quality camera. It has a huge picture profile and camera profile memory, so I can save a ton of profiles and name them.

For all you R&G shooters, the F5 probably has some drawbacks. There's no auto focus, no auto exposure, or powered zoom. I have an external servo drive that i use to power the lens zoom, and that works really well, altho', it takes a minute to set up when I first power up.These things can't even be had with the $10k Sony FZ lens made for the F3. But, I never use these features, anyway. Don't like to shoot with auto anything because of the distracting exposure changes as the aperture steps in a non-continuous way. There is auto white balance, tho'. S&Q motion is painless with the F5....recording to RAW for timelapse and slomo is really nice.

All in all, I'm really happy with what seems, for my needs, to be a perfect camera. I'm using my PIX 240 as an external monitor and recording HD DNxHD or prores, when I don't have the time to transcode XAVC. Altho' in all cases I have 10 bit. I'm really holding my breath for C-D to release compressed 4K, then I'll use the O7Q with the F5 for 4K compressed to Prores. The F5 has 4 SDI output ports. Two main ports duplicate monitoring capability in 3G, while the 2 sub ports provide 3G display overlay, so I can monitor via one set and record via the other set. Haven't played much with SStP, but, the few tests I've done with RGB444 looks gorgeously rich in color.

I can see where this cam might not work for real R&G shooters. Too much weight and too much to set up for each shot. it's been said it takes 2 people to shoot an F5. I can sure see some truth to that in an R&G situation. But, picture quality is breathtaking.

I had to swallow really hard over the price. And there's always the add-ons that I don't figure on....recording media is...uhhh..outrageously expensive, as are the add-on units to be able to play back XQD and R5 media. And the F5 comes without a mic, so, I had to add my Rode shotgun mounted on a 3rd party mic holder and mount. I also had to build my own remote record button, but, the connector to communicate with the cam is there.
 
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