FS5: Matching FS5 with FS7 in rec 709

H

hepler

Active member
I have a FS5 and I shoot it either slog2 raw out to my shogun or I use a custom cinegammut, PP which is cine 4 color and s-gammut3-cine, and record either prores HQ or prores raw 90% of the time. But recently I have been doing a few jobs where I am B-cam to a small production company here and they shoot the FS7 and they shoot it in the standard 709 most of the time. Interview stuff, corporate etc.
Does anyone have a good recommendation for a PP that will match that FS7 for the FS5 in a standard rec mode? My experience is that I have not found a PP that comes set up with the camera that is even close. The colors are just not good with any of the standard profiles from the factory. I can grade the FS5 footage to match the 7 perfectly quite easily, but when I just give them the footage they don't like the extra step.
Thanks
 
hepler said:
Does anyone have a good recommendation for a PP that will match that FS7 for the FS5 in a standard rec mode?
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They're shooting with the FS7's standard factory default look? Lazy. Why don't you paint their FS7 for them to match your FS5 since they obviously don't have a clue as to how to operate their camera and you probably have a better eye for it than they do.
 
Doug, I totally agree, but its perfect world vs reality. I should have bought a FS7 three years ago but at the time it was twice the price, and still is, and I just still might. The stuff they are shooting is used car tv stuff, corporate training, etc. not exactly made for tv cinema stuff, but it pays the bills. The truth is that the FS7 looks pretty good in the standard 709, especially compared to the FS5 which is horrible in it's standard PP's. And when we do both shoot log, which we do that as well, that footage is great from both cameras. I'm just trying to match the 5 in a wysiwyg in camera that looks like the 7 in 4k, so far no luck.
Thanks
Scott
 
Wish i could help you but so far i can't . I wish Sony didn't use entirely separate color systems for their 2 lines of cameras i.e. professional and consumer. I've never had the time to try to match them but as I'm buying an A7iii this week I'm going to try my best. My guess is if someone can match an Fs5 , A7 or even an FS700/1000 to an FS7 or F5/55 or even an F3 that the settings would be pretty close. If anyone has had luck at that please let us all know. Unfortunately this comes up all the time.
 
LennyLevy said:
Unfortunately this comes up all the time.
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It comes up all the time because anyone who has invested the time and effort to do it probably doesn't want to share their results. Why should they? It is proprietary knowledge. Anyway, it ought to take anyone who has access to both cameras about half an hour to create a pretty good match. But what are they matching too, that is the question? There are lots of variables and having two cameras that look the same does not mean it will be a good look for either one. The OP here wants to match his FS5 to the default look of the FS7. That may be what he needs, but what good is that to anyone else? First one must decide on a nice look for one camera or the other -- and then attempt to match it with the second camera.
 
Check with AbelCine(or on their website). They have done a lot of "matching"* scene files(picture profiles) for different camera lines. This was more or less the idea behind the "Macie Standard" back in the Betacam days. Some shows and networks even made it a pre-requisite for your camera to have the Macie set-up to shoot for them.

I hate having to match most non-matching(different model) cameras, because you usually either end up having to dumb-down the better/higher-end camera or the lower end camera just looks really out of place in the final cut.


*at least as close as some can reasonably get to each other.
 
"First one must decide on a nice look for one camera or the other -- and then attempt to match it with the second camera."

True enough Doug. But I would be interested in any starting points though I always use a personally created Matrix for my FS7 so it might not be of any use with that.
Still if I had that setup for a default FS7 and needed to go in a hurry I could always shoot the FS7 that way.
 
Run&Gun said:
This was more or less the idea behind the "Macie Standard" back in the Betacam days.
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And it looked awful. I used Macie for repairs but I'd never let him change the look of my HL59 after seeing what he did to other people's cameras. Those were the dark days when you had to take off the side of the camera and tweak settings with a screwdriver so it was hard to undo or change the look once it was set.
 
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Yea, if you didn't have one of those "Macie Standard" stickers on your camera, you weren't considered legit for network use. Sorta silly, but I could see the need for some consistent look, especially at that time when multiple camera setups were becoming the rage and post color correction tools were pretty basic.
 
Doug Jensen said:
And it looked awful. I used Macie for repairs but I'd never let him change the look of my HL59 after seeing what he did to other people's cameras. Those were the dark days when you had to take off the side of the camera and tweak settings with a screwdriver so it was hard to undo or change the look once it was set.
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JCummings said:
Yea, if you didn't have one of those "Macie Standard" stickers on your camera, you weren't considered legit for network use. Sorta silly, but I could see the need for some consistent look, especially at that time when multiple camera setups were becoming the rage and post color correction tools were pretty basic.
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Different times for sure... Setting up cameras back then definitely was not as easy as it is now and you couldn't just go on the internet and find scene files and looks(if you had a camera with a digital paint menu). And yes, post capabilities were very limited compared to today.

I consider myself picky/having high standards regarding the way a camera looks and I loved the way my Sony D50WS looked after they set it up(granted it started out 10x better than a BVW out of the box). I got compliments literally all of the time from producers, reporters, other camera guys and even engineers. I thought it even looked better than most D600's that had been set-up. This of course was in the SD days. Jump ahead to the HD days and I DID NOT like what they did with my VariCam. Looked horrible. None of the scene files were acceptable to me. I immediately went back to the look I created and still use it to this day.
 
Thanks for that offer, I can match them in post no problems at all. I really need to paint the FS5 in camera to better match the FS7 Standard shooting mode. I just hand them the sd cards at the end of the shoot and off they go. They are not colorist and their turn around times are such they just want to do a quick edit and done. We do green screen shots a lot and run and gun type stuff. Ill probably look for a used FS7 next year and go that direction. For my own clients I have found a good look with the prores raw out of the FS5. It saved that camera for me. I came from Canon 5d's and then C100's, when I needed 4k I couldn't justify the 15K+ price of the c300 so I switched to the sony, and I love the feature set of the 5 but the color and iq has never been good in 4k until the raw out feature.
Thanks again.
 
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