Masterful Gimbal Work

keylight

keylight

Veteran
This guy is amazing...... His gimbal work looks like he was using a dolly, jib, tracks....!


Edit: He's using:

SONY α6300(4K 24p Super35mm slog2 pp7)
Sony E PZ 18-105mm F4 G OSS SELP18105G
Pilotfly H2(3axis stabilizer)
Small HD 702 bright(7inch monitor)
 
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The issue I have with these demo clips is that none of them ever show anything challenging. Big deal - shots of a building; who can't frame that? Where are the actors that are being followed around and well-framed? I want to see something more useful and challenging. For example, let's see two people going up a staircase. I want to see precise framing as the operator follows the people up the stairs and around the corners to the next flight.
 
I agree, Paul, that the real challenges lie in the type of shots you describe, but in a sense that has just as much to do with the limitations of the hardware as it would the skill of the operator--I for one will not seriously consider a gimbal over Steadicam for that type of coverage until the single-user mode becomes instantly responsive (I have various thoughts on the viability of two-person operation but in a nutshell: useful for action shots where the person holding the gimbal has to focus attention to navigation i.e. running, but not ideal for working in close with actors).

What I see that is impressive in that clip is a lack of vertical displacement/footsteps that I find typical of gimbals, especially with objects in the foreground. Also the tilts are nicely feathered at the stops.

Ultimately--I feel that it is impossible to truly judge any clip for stability at face value any more, since post-stabilization is so sophisticated and readily available.
 
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Paul F said:
The issue I have with these demo clips is that none of them ever show anything challenging. Big deal - shots of a building; who can't frame that? Where are the actors that are being followed around and well-framed? I want to see something more useful and challenging. For example, let's see two people going up a staircase. I want to see precise framing as the operator follows the people up the stairs and around the corners to the next flight.
Click to expand...

Anyone who's ever used a gimbal knows what a challenge it is to hide the fact that you're using one. It can be a smooth but at the same time jagged and awkward motion.
No doubt gimbals can be used to shoot some crazy advanced stuff, but I don't think that was what Keylight was getting at. Charles makes a good point about post stabilization though.
 
CharlesPapert said:
Ultimately--I feel that it is impossible to truly judge any clip for stability at face value any more, since post-stabilization is so sophisticated and readily available.
Click to expand...

And?

If there is a tool, use it to make pretty images.

Im in my first week of ronin ownership and also have been directing a drone shoot.

Defo the lack of good interface for the second operator is a hinderance.

We also have shot some stuff that would have cost a lot of money or been inpossilbe (like flying through narrow gaps that a real chopper would not do in) in the last week that has been very very interesting.

Certainly I would shoot loose 4k and have no compunction to wiggle the moves in the edit.

I completely agree on XYZ stabilisation too - even the little heli is bounced by the wind and of course there is foot bounce at ground level. Obvously my 'Arm' is getting tests with the Ronin.

Ideally Id like a horizon control on my steadicam rig.. I think that would be very good.

S
 
I find the gimbal clip to be very very nice looking. As a shooter I know the difficult to move all axis and keep things framed good so I appreciate seeing something well done.
 
You're all making great points. Certainly shooting dynamic shots following/leading people adds another level of complexity, but as for the original video Charles gets at what impressed me. The bounce from walking is nearly invisible, the pan and tilts ramp smoothly, and some of the shots are clearly zoomed in (which would accentuate any bounce).

Here are two other videos he shot a month ago. Scan through them and you'll find some very nice shots with people. The guy's clearly working hard on his technique and on fine tuning his gimbal. (He has a bunch of videos that go into his settings, although they're in Japanese).



 
morgan_moore said:
And?
Click to expand...

Point being, the OP comments were seemingly oriented towards the smoothness of the footage, which is a factor that may or may not be due to operator skill or helped along by other means.

To elaborate--when I evaluate someone's Steadicam work (for potential hire etc)., I look for their control of the rig especially in the roll axis, if their footsteps are visible in slow moves etc. That is the technical side of the craft. After that, I look for their choices in framing, how they respond to actors, where they place the lens at any given moment. If only the technical side is considered, that is an arena that can be substantially improved via post-stab, or some of the emerging products that merge Steadicam and gimbal principles. That's where this is all heading, and that's fine, but at that point the attribute of smoothness will have less and less to do with the operator's own skill. Fortunately, the much more important aspects I detailed above will still all be relevant.
 
Yep I completely get you that the steadicam has huge response in the hands of even a mediocre op such as myself - I think - the camera reacts to those thoughts.. pan tilt and boom

Ive not experienced 'electronic' control anything like that yet.

Im just saying that with a bit of loose framing you can neaten the laggy electronic moves... and does that matter if you have the res?

S
 
CharlesPapert said:
To elaborate--when I evaluate someone's Steadicam work (for potential hire etc)., I look for their control of the rig especially in the roll axis, if their footsteps are visible in slow moves etc. That is the technical side of the craft. After that, I look for their choices in framing, how they respond to actors, where they place the lens at any given moment.
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This I think is the most important part of the argument which I think is overall lacking with the widespread use of gimbals.

-If I needed sweeping shots of streets w/buildings I would hire this guy. I would tell him what I want exactly he would probably nail it.

-If I am filming a scene with actors I will go to my steadicam op of 10 years because of the talent set that is completely different and different type of experience required to execute those shots.

I remember the 6 minute oners they made us do at the end of the steadicam classes that thought you how to frame actors, where to stop, how to interpret motion, anticipate movement....all the things that make the scene. Designing a shot is such a huge part of it, for those who are intrested in learning more about the theory of moving the camera I would recommend going over to the http://www.steadishots.org/ created by Afton Grant.

Best resource out there.IMHO.
 
emretufekci said:
Designing a shot is such a huge part of it
Click to expand...

Completely.. and these videos are basically random shots with no starts stops or motivations.

If I ever do a 'gimbal reel' the shots will be specific and motivated.

Currently Im just sitting looking at the thing and scratching my head.
 
Here is something I shot yesterday, there is no master plan behind it, just random shots I took within one hour... to test the gimbal, I am an engineer, gimbal developer.

The lens is an old 300 mm FD lens on GH4, did not have any ND filter so had to use f22 to keep 1/60 shutter. So for sure not even technically great.

But I think considering the relatively light weight of the system and long focal length the gimbal worked nicely and askin from you as cinematographers, is it a tool you could find use for?

https://vimeo.com/166710007

here is the gimbal 300mm_small.png

Or how about what would you do with a multi copter than has free view for any direction, fully up, fully down and all around https://www.facebook.com/levitezergimbal/videos/872323589580786/
 
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This one looks much more promising.... The Steadicam Steadimate accessory (for those with Steadicam vests & arms) for $400:

 
The first one looks crazy and also does not get that the Steadicam arm also isolates X and Y to even the speed of walking although the human 'lurches' forwards

(not to mention getting through tight spaces or whatever)

The Steadicam arm is the obvious solution for XYZ

S
 
There're also ARRI Trinity and Maxima systems. They acquired that portion of the business from Sachtler/Vitec.
 
Running with the H2..... Almost no bounce that I can see. And I verified that he does not post-stabilize. This is in camera with the OSS of the Sony lens.

 
Cool. We all have to take lessons from him on how he does this. I'd like to see a BTS shot of him running.

Can OIS really absorb all the Z-axis movement?
 
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