Master Pedestal 101 for the Aspiring Newbie

Bart_Boge

Bart_Boge

Well-known member
WAIT--Don't get mad quite yet!

I know there are numerous threads about the specific setting and suggestions regarding Master Ped, including the examples from the front page link. I am just wondering if some of the more basic questions about the setting can be explained, such as:

What is it?

What does the label refer to, or where does it come from?

What is the difference between set-up 0 and 7.5?

When i look at the sample shots posted by Jarred, altering the master ped also seems to affect the overall contrast and color saturation of the images. The lower master peds look "richer" than the higher settings. Are there any inherent disadvantages to using lower master ped settings? Aside from some obvious loss of detail in the blacks?

If DVX100 cameras have good dark image resolution, why not just stop every shot down 1-2 steps and lighten to taste in post?

How much of this work can be done in post using the cameras stock settings? Why would it be better to commit more adventurous settings to tape in the field versus changing them in post?

Thank you.
 
Re: Master Pedestal 101 for the Aspiring Newbie

..testing.. testing.. 1.. 2... 3...

..check 1... check 2... check 3...

..is this thing on?

(50 reads, 0 replies as of this post)
 
Re: Master Pedestal 101 for the Aspiring Newbie

It's always good to shoot it as close to the final product as possible...If you know you're going to want lifted blacks, shoot with the raised Master Ped, and if you know you want more crushed blacks, shoot with a lower Master Ped level.

I'm not really sure what you're wanting an answer to...it seems you're at a point where your personal preference (doing your looks in post or during production) will come into play. Personally I like to shoot it as I want it. Sometimes you can't do that, so you have to tweak it in post.
 
Re: Master Pedestal 101 for the Aspiring Newbie

IRE is a by the Institute of Radio Engineers. It is a now officially called the IEEE. I'm not an expert on this at all!

It has something to do with Video Signals and Legal Acceptable Standards. It's a signal that ranges from 0 to 144 whereas '0' is true black and 100 would be blown out white. 7.5 has to do with the Luminance and a Composite Video Signal.

:P

Man I could be way off. I read this once and if anyone can further clarify please do.
 
Re: Master Pedestal 101 for the Aspiring Newbie

Let's be honest here--we're all waiting for Barry Green to answer:-).

Very simply, the master pedestal control sets the black level of your video signal. The word pedestal is used because a pedestal sits under everything else--in this case your range of tonal values. Master pedestal doesn't change contrast or color saturation directly, but as you've noticed from Jarred's fine examples, if you set your Master ped too high it will give you muddy blacks and your contrast and color saturation will look worse. Increasing the master ped will *decrease* the dynamic range of your image.

Lowering your Master ped (aka crushing the blacks--boy do I hate that phrase) forces some lower tonal values to black. In other words, it will take a higher voltage on your CCD's to produce a tone above black.

In general, I'd recommend leaving the Master ped alone--you're more likely to screw up your image than improve it. If you're matching cameras, the Master ped is a handy control. In certain workflows, adjusting the Master ped can also be useful.

Setup is the definition of your reference level black. DV setup is 0 IRE which is equivalent to RGB levels of 0,0,0. The original NTSC standard required a setup of 7.5 IRE to deal with early equipment limitations of displaying "pure" black. NTSC video in the US still specifies a setup of 7.5 IRE, but this should *not* be set on your DVX100. If your workflow is to DVD's, the DVD player will automatically add setup. If you supply tapes for broadcast, you need to discuss the requirements with the broadcast engineer to make sure setup is not being added twice (or not at all!). If you do need to add setup or conform your tape to broadcast legal standards, it would either be done during editing or by the broadcast engineer--but never in the camera.
 
Re: Master Pedestal 101 for the Aspiring Newbie

Dude, nobody needs to wait for me to respond -- that was an excellent post! I always learn something in your audio posts, and your video posts are no exception either. Excellent, clear, concise, well-written... thanks for taking the time!
 
Re: Master Pedestal 101 for the Aspiring Newbie

Also keep in mind that most NLEs with decent color correction tools will allow you to achieve the effects you would with the master pedestal in post. Best not to give the CCD more to worry about.
 
Re: Master Pedestal 101 for the Aspiring Newbie

Thank you all. I get it now. I use FCP HD and the color correction tools are probably more than sufficient to accomplish the same thing in post without committing to it during a shoot. I LIKE tweaking in post, so I'll probably leave things well enough alone.
 
Re: Master Pedestal 101 for the Aspiring Newbie

Jesus.. I guess if your name is Barry you where born for this stuff. :)
 
Re: Master Pedestal 101 for the Aspiring Newbie

Hey, there's more where that came from, 'cause we got ullanta and Cheong on our side too...

(someday we're going to have to find out Jimerson's middle name. I have a hunch it begins with a "B".)
 
Re: Master Pedestal 101 for the Aspiring Newbie

Just a quick note that 7.5 Setup is for analog devices only and that the SMPTE standard for RGB (8 bit) for digital television is RGB16 = BLACK and RGB235 = WHITE. WHere they fall in the analog world is what Barry is referring to.

RGB16 = 7.5 IRE ANALOG NTSC
RGB16 = 0 IRE ANALOG NTSC-J (JAPAN)
RGB16 = 0 IRE ANALOG PAL

RGB235 = 100 URE ANALOG - EVERYONE

Michael
 
Re: Master Pedestal 101 for the Aspiring Newbie

[quote author=Barry_S link=board=Events;num=1086024546;start=0#4 date=06/01/04 at 12:16:24]Let's be honest here--we're all waiting for Barry Green to answer:-). [/quote]

Nice explanation Barry...
 
From what I understand of dynamic range, wouldn't increasing the master pedestal level from the -15 range to -3 increase the dynamic range of the image, since there is detail added to the blacks? Any level above -3 or possibly even 0 seems to start removing detail in the whites, and that is where it would seem that increasing the master ped level would start decreasing the dynamic range of the image. Everything I've noticed though is based on the level examples that Jarred had provided in his article.

I'm probably wrong about all this, so what is the difference between contrast and dynamic range?
 
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