Master ped

T

thome

Well-known member
Hi peolpe,
I recently shot a video and my master ped was on -8 but the funny thing is that my blacks looked brownish?????? what could i have done wrong?
LIghting was a 1k blond,two 650 arris.

I used 8ball settings...WHY,WHY,WHY??????????

Settings
DETAIL LEVEL -3
V DETAIL LEVEL -1
DETAIL CORING +2
CHROMA LEVEL +3
CHROMA PHASE 0
COLOR TEMP 0
MASTER PED -8
A. IRIS LEVEL -1
GAMMA B.PRESS
KNEE HIGH
MATRIX CINELIKE
SKIN TONE DTL OFF
V DETAIL FREQ THIN
PROGRESSIVE 24p

WHY,WHY,WHY??????????
 
well i duno why it would turn out brown...but u say CTB balanced. Did u balance b4 or after u gelled the lights. either way that wudnt make it brown...but i;m just asking

U have a clip of it that u can show?
 
Before we discuss, lets see some video, or some still images.

The colors you'll achieve in white balancing before or after you lit the scene can vary a lot in terms of colors, and your master PED's blacks. (Correct me if I'm wrong someone)

But yea, make sure to white balance when the scene is all ready to go, in other words, before you yell action and hit record.

I think I've had this problem before, but the blacks weren't brown. More purple. But I also think it had to do with my color grade in post.

Robbie
 
yeh the colours will vary based on if u white balance b4 or after u lit the scene. White balance under the light source ur gonna be shooting under...ie after u light the scene. If u white balanced b4 u gelled those lights, then u gelled them then ur gels wud be acting as a lighting effect and be blue (but not brown). so if u want natural looking colours gel ur lights then white balance. However i duno why ur blacks are brown. 8 ball settings have always been good to me. Show a clip or some pics.

Robbie Comeau said:
Before we discuss, lets see some video, or some still images.

The colors you'll achieve in white balancing before or after you lit the scene can vary a lot in terms of colors, and your master PED's blacks. (Correct me if I'm wrong someone)

But yea, make sure to white balance when the scene is all ready to go, in other words, before you yell action and hit record.

I think I've had this problem before, but the blacks weren't brown. More purple. But I also think it had to do with my color grade in post.

Robbie
Click to expand...
 
Thanx for your reply guyz...Well you've made me ask myself weather or not i white balanced correctly...Either way heres the picture..Does it look like a white balance issue?That boy on the right is wearing a black top.
picture.php
 
Master pedestal probably wouldn't have anything to do with it. White balance certainly could.

Let me ask a question that may seem like it's way out there. Did you have the 1/64 ND engaged?
 
Thanx Joshua...No i don't think the ND was on coz i rarely use it!!!!Why?does it have such results sometimes?
 
Your white balance is off.
--look at the cement blocks and vegetation at the bottom right.
 
This is more of a question than a comment but is it true if you hold the white ballance button too long it will do an ABB (black) balance instead of just a normal White balance?
 
thome said:
Thanx Joshua...No i don't think the ND was on coz i rarely use it!!!!Why?does it have such results sometimes?
Click to expand...

Not sure. Some people had reported on the RED camera that when using strong ND filters, their blacks went purple/red. It was because the ND blocks visible light but not infrared and the sensor had no infrared filter. The image got poluted with some near-red light. The issue ramped up a lot of manufacturers to produce more "hot mirror" ND's that block all light including infrared.

Anyway, the DVX probably has good infrared filtering on the lens/sensor. Just a thought, when I saw the black shirt looking kind of purple.

Anyway, it's probably just a white balance issue. Get yourself a gray card.
 
aight so i did a couple tests...and found some pretty wacky stuff. its my first time using ctb gels...but ido know how to use 'em in theory, so i bought some to practise with and what do you know?! I found results simliar to thome's. will post it a bit later. stay tuned.


argh!! vimeo is so annoying at times...95% loaded and it just stops!
 
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You can basically get the DVX to represent a whole mixed up bunch of color tints and odd looking color specs, they are cheats or tricks for the cam.

Best you read manual, do a black balance, then to fully pinpoint what your problem is and eliminate a CCD or other cam problem, do a heap of test footage and see if you can get it to happen again. I'm sort of thinking it may not be white balance because i've played a lot and even if you use a white card and somehow stuff it up, the worst it will look is either slightly blueish cast or a warmish red cast. To start having different colors like browns where black should be, you really need to start getting whacky with green cards, pink cards, yellow etc. This tricks the cam and you get some weird results regarding color representation.

It will be interesting to see Jambredz results he's come up with using the gels, I've never played in this area, it kind of curious.
 
been tryin to uplaod this for the longest time...duno whats up...bedtime. i'll try again when i wake up.

edit : hey guys...this is my little test http://www.vimeo.com/4128064

I hope you understand me...accent and all.

things i found out.

1. the black looks natural under tungsten balance with the tungsten lights (i forgot to put that test up)
2. the blacks in the fabrics get (redder) as if i let more light come into the camera( open up the iris...decrease the shutter speed)
3.if the gel is on the colour gets distorted.
4. half ctb - the colour isnt so distorted
** when i say custom white balance that means "manual white balance".



NB. 1 .I did a black balance AFTER the test...cuz i have never done that. So this test was without a black balance. After i did the black balance, NOTHING changed.
.2. I just looked on the colours under natural sunlight and its fine. So its only with the gels.
.3. The scene file settings were set to "8ball press high" i think is the name, however i did spin the wheel on different settings(not in that test) and it reflected the same results.
.4. to further confirm the madness...i just did a test with 1/2 ctb on the light and the cap in the foreground...and a black shirt in the back ground with natural daylight streaming in through the window. the cap in the foreground is not fully black...BUT the shirt in the background IS black. this was BOTH done with preset daylight WB and a manual "custom" WB.
Sigh...this is crazy.


so if ya'll know whats goin on...tell me. Maybe i;m doing something wrong...i must be. but why are fabrics affected and nothing else???
 
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shaun1970 said:
.........................To start having different colors like browns where black should be, you really need to start getting whacky with green cards, pink cards, yellow etc. This tricks the cam and you get some weird results regarding color representation.....
Click to expand...

This makes me wonder if your settings in your scene file are at extreme values or near the default values.
If your scene file settings are within a reasonable range of the default values and you have white balanced properly using white paper (or are using the 5600K preset) and your ABB has been reset, then you should be fine. Using gels to try and compensate will only confuse the issue further. You should be able to get a correct image straight from the camera. If not, there may be a reason for a service check.
 
maybe i have some wacked out gel...its very wierd that it affects fabric...i even have a leather case with fabric where the zipper is and the case will be black but the zipper will be watever redish-brown colour. that was under the preset...then i white balanced and it was better,but only under the 1/2 ctb. I'm beginning to think the full ctb maybe some wacky colour. It doesnt have a marking on it. How they sell it is i asked for a full ctb and they cut it off the roll per square foot. I'm wondering if she made a mistake.

edit: also you'll see from my video that the daylight preset under full ctb is very blue. isnt it suppose to be white light??? so this is REALLY making me wonder if i really have a full ctb gel here. I havent used gels b4 so i duno how its supposed to look...but if ur using a 5600k preset and throw a full ctb on a 500watt tungsten lamp isnt it gonna turn it into the 3200 to 5600...giving a white light..or MAYBE slighly blue., but not blue like in my video. you guys tell me plz.
 
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ok....it looks as if that full cbt that i have isnt really a full ctb...cuz i put 2 half CTB on the light to test it and that looks more like what it should be. On the 56k preset the 2 half ctb (making it a full) maked the light white. only that crap i had on b4 made everything blue.

However the black problem is still there...blacks in fabrics are not black...but other materials are fine. HOWEVER, under the 56k preset the blacks are better than under the manual white balance, and some material is black and some arent

So this is all very confusing.

therefore the final consensus after many tests is:

1.I didnt have a full ctb in the video it seems so the full CTB section of my video is FLAWED!!

2. after tests with 2 half ctb's(1 full) on the tungsten light source, the tungsten light was white (daylight) and colours were true EXCEPT blacks in fabric with both 56k preset and manual WB.

3. Plastics and other materials that were black were not affected and remained BLACK!

4. Tungsten balancing the camera under tungsten lights rendered the blacks true for both preset 32k and manual WB!

5. Black distortion only existed under gelled lights. Blacks under the natural sunlight coming through the window were true both with 56k preset and manual WB.

Type of light used were 500k halogen worklights. I wonder if that has anything to do with it.
Conclusion....i dont frickin know...my gels mite be crap, who knows!
 
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gco said:
This makes me wonder if your settings in your scene file are at extreme values or near the default values.
If your scene file settings are within a reasonable range of the default values and you have white balanced properly using white paper (or are using the 5600K preset) and your ABB has been reset, then you should be fine. Using gels to try and compensate will only confuse the issue further. You should be able to get a correct image straight from the camera. If not, there may be a reason for a service check.
Click to expand...

If this has happened to two people at once i highly doubt its a service issue...

jambredz did u also use the 8 ball settings?I'm starting to think that's the problem.
 
Hey let me ran more tests tomorrow with different settings and let u know what happens!!Plus this time i'll do a ABB
 
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