FS7: Mark I vs Mark II

V

Vintegreo

Well-known member
I'm getting pretty close to pulling the trigger on purchasing the start of my FS7 package. For the most part, I feel like I'm going to go with the Mark II, but do go back and forth just a bit given the cost difference and the greater availability of B-stock in the Mark I version.

I plan to get a camera, the Zeiss 21-100 once it's available and the Zacuto gratical eye bundle.

Given that I plan to get the gratical eye bundle, it seems to negate the viewfinder improvements from Mark I to Mark II. So now the improvements I'm paying for are the variable ND filter, the additional assign buttons and the 20.20 color space and other minor improvements.

What I missing as far as considerations are concerned?

I'll probably still get a II, but just want to make sure I'm being realistic about wha the actual differences are.

Thanks!

Tim
 
Variable ND is the feature I most love on my FS5. It really is superb. Once you've used it, traditional ND filter systems seem very clunky and outdated. It's very, very useful for fast paced run-n-gun too. That feature, plus the better engineered locking lens mount, make the FS7 Mark II the one to go for in my book. The viewfinder improvements were essential anyway...even if you won't use it.

Hope this helps.
 
I haven't felt like I am missing anything on my mark 1 fs7, but I had a go at the fs7mkII at the camera store the other day and the variable ND and positive lock e mount did seem pretty great.

as much as I dislike the viewfinder on a round 15mm rod when shooting, I love it when I'm putting the camera away. I don't derig anything. I fold back my handle and turn the VF towards the camera body and drop it in a porta-brace ENG shoulder bag. works a charm and most airlines are fine with it even.



Your idea of the fs7II, 21-100, and gratical eye seems great. Don't forget you'll need a way to power that gratical eye - personally i recommend the XDCA as you don't have timecode without it - but SWIT makes bpu batteries with a d tap to power the eye as well.
 
KeithM Z Syst said:
The locking E-mount is a great feature as well. And it is much stronger than the one on the Mk I.
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Stronger but also slower. It doubles if not triples the time it takes to swap lenses. And it also forces you to use two hands- something that can at times be problematic if you have no place to set the camera down. For instance, if you are in a muddy field or standing in water at the time. Even with the speedier MkI lens mount I have often missed action because the lens change took too long. For Run & Gun / any type of speed-shooting, you are better off with a MkI. For that sort of shooting the variable ND doesn't make up for the handicap constituted by the more complex mount. And let's be honest, for 90% of us the original mount was just fine. The new locking mount is a solution to a problem I never had. A "solution" that for much of my shooting constitutes a new problem.

In terms of pure economics, Vintegreo, it likely makes more sense to go with a pre-owned MkI. The MKII upgrades are mostly conveniences that do not alter the produced image. There is no improvement to the recorded image the camera produces. You likely will not gain any jobs over the MkI owners or be able to charge more than if you owned a MkI. So you'll pay more but reap no financial gain over a MkI. I have yet to have a job inquiry where they demanded a Fs7 MkII over a MkI. The clients really don't give a flip which version is used because there is no difference for them. The quality of the footage is the same. They gain next to nothing from a MkII over a MkI.

In terms of the heart, you might regret not getting the latest greatest, the MkII, and benefitting from the variable ND. But we are talking roughly double the cost since a pre-owned MkI body can be had for $5.5k and a MkII body costs $10k.
 
JPNola said:
Stronger but also slower. It doubles if not triples the time it takes to swap lenses. And it also forces you to use two hands- something that can at times be problematic if you have no place to set the camera down. For instance, if you are in a muddy field or standing in water at the time. Even with the speedier MkI lens mount I have often missed action because the lens change took too long. For Run & Gun / any type of speed-shooting, you are better off with a MkI. For that sort of shooting the variable ND doesn't make up for the handicap constituted by the more complex mount. And let's be honest, for 90% of us the original mount was just fine. The new locking mount is a solution to a problem I never had. A "solution" that for much of my shooting constitutes a new problem.
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I see what you're saying and it's definitely well worth reminding people that a feature can often bring drawbacks. That said, if Tim's getting the Zeiss 21-100 then I imagine he might not be having to change lenses all that often. (So envious!)

JPNola said:
In terms of pure economics, Vintegreo, it likely makes more sense to go with a pre-owned MkI. The MKII upgrades are mostly conveniences that do not alter the produced image. There is no improvement to the recorded image the camera produces. You likely will not gain any jobs over the MkI owners or be able to charge more than if you owned a MkI. So you'll pay more but reap no financial gain over a MkI. I have yet to have a job inquiry where they demanded a Fs7 MkII over a MkI. The clients really don't give a flip which version is used because there is no difference for them. The quality of the footage is the same. They gain next to nothing from a MkII over a MkI.
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This is all true, but I know from my own purchase choices, some of my least-regretted decisions made zero impact on my employability or rates, but simply made every minute shooting more enjoyable and less stressful. I think that's a valid point, and it really depends on one's personal financial situation as to how these variables resolve.

JPNola said:
In terms of the heart, you might regret not getting the latest greatest, the MkII, and benefitting from the variable ND. But we are talking roughly double the cost since a pre-owned MkI body can be had for $5.5k and a MkII body costs $10k.
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Having said that, you're right, the sheer price difference here does seem to make the 'sensible' choice pretty obvious! I think if someone brought a lens adaptor onto the market that gave you vari-ND and a locking lens mount, and was trying to charge $4.5K for it - wellllllll, that just about says it all, doesn't it!!! :-D

FWIW Tim, I don't think you'll regret either purchase. The MkI is a very, very capable camera.

-jason
 
I really appreciate everyones' responses! One added wrinkle in all of this is that I'm planning on a lease-to-own option and the Zeiss 21-100 isn't currently available and the answer to the question of when is pretty ambiguous at this time! Additionally, I'm glad that the powering of the gratical eye was mentioned. I knew this, but it was a detail that wasn't at the top of mind as I was considering what kind of batteries to get.

So...we shall see what I end up doing. Hoping to get this done very soon!

Thanks everyone!

Tim
 
Regarding powering the Gratical Eye, I've just bought some Swit batteries for my Sony FS5. These have D-TAP which might prove useful to you as one battery option. Currently, with my lesser cam, they communicate perfectly with the camera (battery level indicator on LCD etc.). I imagine they work fine on both the FS7 and FS7 MkII - but someone will have to reconfirm that. A few more details about the batteries in this blog post.

http://www.shootingimage.co.uk/AndyKWilkinson/files/Swit Batteries for Sony FS5.html
 
andykwilkinson said:
Regarding powering the Gratical Eye, I've just bought some Swit batteries for my Sony FS5. These have D-TAP which might prove useful to you as one battery option. Currently, with my lesser cam, they communicate perfectly with the camera (battery level indicator on LCD etc.). I imagine they work fine on both the FS7 and FS7 MkII - but someone will have to reconfirm that. A few more details about the batteries in this blog post.

http://www.shootingimage.co.uk/AndyKWilkinson/files/Swit Batteries for Sony FS5.html
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Yes! Saw those at NAB. Thanks!
 
andykwilkinson said:
Regarding powering the Gratical Eye, I've just bought some Swit batteries for my Sony FS5. These have D-TAP which might prove useful to you as one battery option. Currently, with my lesser cam, they communicate perfectly with the camera (battery level indicator on LCD etc.). I imagine they work fine on both the FS7 and FS7 MkII - but someone will have to reconfirm that. A few more details about the batteries in this blog post.http://www.shootingimage.co.uk/AndyKWilkinson/files/Swit Batteries for Sony FS5.html
Click to expand...

I can confirm that the SWITs communicate perfectly with my FS-7 Mk1. I'm using them to power my eye as well as the cam. One more note is that you need to buy one of these as well, as the D-Tap out on the battery is recessed within the FS7 body when in use. I'd also recommend getting the largest SWIT BPU-type batteries you can, as the eye sucks a decent amount of power when in use, I use the S-8U93s (with 86Wh) and the S-8U63 (with 63Wh).

Happy shopping!

jason
 
One other thing to consider is if you think you may need a second matching camera for mulitcam shoots, a second FS7(II) is the ideal camera. So, keep in mind that SD cards holding "All Files" only work between same generation cameras. I am likely to get another FS7, not FS7II because of that reason.
 
For use with that Zeiss I would get the Mark II simply for the stronger mount, & the Variable ND would be icing on the cake.

I'm also powering the Eye via Swit batteries, & it eats a fair amount of juice. Unfortunately I bought four of the 60W batteries just before the 90W became available, & would definitely recommend the stronger batteries. Supposedly they're the same size so just as easy to transport. And if you go that route buy at least a couple of the D-Tap adapters as they're small, & could easily get misplaced. I'm also not a fan of the OEM charger with it's permanently attached DC cable, though I sort of remember them updating that, & bought two of Swits dual chargers. If your in the USA buy the batteries from Swit.us as the pricing is the same but shipping is usually quicker.

But with that Zeiss I'd likely use brick batteries to help balance the package. Another issue is there's no On/Off switch for the Eye so you need to unplug it when idling, or it will suck your batteries dry. Seem to remember some brick battery plate(s) with On/Off switches for the D-Tap, & would go that route if available.
 
Tom Roper said:
Those might be good reasons not to upgrade to the MkII but not good reasons to choose the MkI over the MkII.
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The fact that the MkII makes you a slower shooter in some types of shooting and causes you to miss more shots in some types of shooting is not a good reason to choose the MkI over the MkII?

If speed is of the essence, the MkI is a better choice.

And another consideration- an Fs7 MkII owner I know had difficulty getting some PL adapters to work with the MkII mount. PL adapters that work just fine with my MkI. We couldn't get the HRC PL adapter to work with the MkII mount. We were able to get the Metabones PL to e-mount adapter to fit but the process is a bit fiddly and not easy-on. If all your lenses are PL, it is no concern because you can just let the PL adapter live on the camera once mounted. Assuming you own a PL adapter that will work with the MkII mount at all.

Ideally Sony would have offered the MkII with the option of locking e-mount or traditional e-mount. If you only use lightweight e-mount / EF glass the locking mount is overkill and adds unnecessary complexity. Were Sony to add the locking mount to the next generation of Fs5 it would be a mistake in my opinion. Keep it simple.
 
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I would agree that adapters to the FS7 II locking e mount are fiddly. I would like to see a comparison of PL to E adapters. I have the 16x9 adapter but honestly haven't tested it since for what I have been shooting with the FS7 II, the 18-110 plus the variable ND does the trick. There was no issue using the 16x9 and a Cabrio (supported, of course) on the original FS7 but that is only anecdotal from someone who rented my camera for that shoot.
 
I'd go for the Mk II.

- The stronger mount means you're not going to have to worry about blurry pictures, because your lens adapter flexed and threw focus off.

- The variable ND is worth it's weight in gold.
 
You mentioned you're doing lease-to-own scheme? Thus you must only be buying brand new perhaps? That then makes it a no brainer to get a mk2 over a mk1! As a mk1 only makes sense now if you can find a cracking damn good price for a mk1 secondhand.
 
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