Mark Cuban: "Don't Follow Your Passion"

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Barry_Green

Moderator
This is a guy who gets it. And it shows.

Sample quotes:
"Everybody tells you, 'Follow your passion, follow your passion.'"

Cuban says that's bad advice because you may not excel at what you are passionate about.

"I used to be passionate to be a baseball player. Then I realized I had a 70-mile-per-hour fastball," says Cuban. Competitive major league pitchers throw fastballs in the range of 90-plus miles per hour.

"I used to be passionate about being a professional basketball player. Then I realized I had a 7-inch vertical," says Cuban. Top contenders for the NBA draft in 2017 each had a max vertical leap over 40 inches.
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This applies to filmmaking just as much as it applies to anyone else. I've met so many who are so passionate about their 'dream' to be a filmmaker... but they suck. It's sad. They waste so much of their life chasing after something that they will never, ever, ever catch, instead of excelling at what they could be excellent at.

So what should you be doing instead? According to Cuban:
"The things I ended up being really good at were the things I found myself putting effort into. A lot of people talk about passion, but that's really not what you need to focus on. You really need to evaluate and say, 'Okay, where am I putting in my time?'" says Cuban.

"Because when you look at where you put in your time, where you put in your effort, that tends to be the things that you are good at. And if you put in enough time, you tend to get really good at it," explains Cuban.

When you are good at something, you enjoy it, says Cuban. The effort and skill snowball.

"If you put in enough time, and you get really good, I will give you a little secret: Nobody quits anything they are good at because it is fun to be good. It is fun to be one of the best," says Cuban.

"But in order to be one of the best, you have to put in effort. So don't follow your passions, follow your effort," says Cuban.

"I am going to give you one other secret: The one thing in life that you can control is your effort," says Cuban.
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I've lived what he's talking about, and I can tell you -- he's spot on.

Another way of saying what he's saying -- writers write. That's all they do, because that's all they want to do, that's all they can do, that's all they will do... they can't not write. They don't "want to write", they don't dream about someday writing, they write and they write and they write and they write and they write. If that's not you, then guess what -- you're not a writer. It doesn't matter how much you "want" to be a writer... it doesn't matter how much you dream about it, or how passionate you are about it. It matters how much you do it. And the more you do it, the better you'll get at it, and, as Cuban said, it'll snowball.

And if this isn't you? If you suddenly realize you're in the wrong field? What now? Cry and moan because you're frustrated, or you've failed, or you've wasted your time? Of course not! Now is the time to celebrate, because finally the shackles are off, you can quit being what you're not, and you can now devote effort to being what you are.
 
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It definitely makes sense but it's also easy to offer this advice when you're already a billionaire, ha.
 
And making it as a professional athlete vs. the film industry is very different. You can get lucky with writing, acting, meeting the right people and getting hired for a certain job (etc), but you can't just one day become a professional athlete (at least with most sports). Most people will know by the end of high school if they have what it takes to play at the next level and/or what their chances are of playing in a professional league.

In the film industry, some people might finally catch their big break at 40, 50 years old.

But I get it...the logic, the effort.
 
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I wonder how many people are extremely passionate about hauling LED panels into office buildings then editing 45 minute interviews from people in upper management positions?
 
I sort of agree and disagree.

Cuban's argument is a mess. He says, don't follow your passion, follow what you've spent time doing. Don't you spend time doing what you're passionate about? Clearly, spending time is not enough. Cuban said he was passionate about baseball and basketball but wasn't good enough. Is he saying that he didn't spend time playing, that he only sat around and dreamed about it?

Your comments are confusing too. After quoting Cuban about it's all about how much time you spend, you say, "They waste so much of their life chasing after something that they will never, ever, ever catch." What do you mean by "chasing"? Chasing seems to mean more than just sitting at home dreaming.

You both seem to be implying that it takes more than time.

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What I agree with is that it takes more than time, what is implicit, not explicit, in your comments. With Norbro I agree that it also takes luck. I might also say it takes inborn talent but to this day I'm unsure how much talent is inborn and how much can be developed through practice.

What I also agree with is that trying to get a job in your passion is dicey. Take the person who likes drawing who finally makes it as a professional graphic designer. He thinks he has it made. Then he realizes how the client can ruin everything. "Can you make it more big, bold, and red?" Now he must choose between doing art his way or getting paid. Hollywood writers and directors complain all the time about producers.

After falling on my face over and over trying to make it in Hollywood, I asked myself, what else do I like to do? It turns out I had a secondary interest in technical writing. It's weird. In filmmaking I only wanted to do fiction. Documentary and event videography sucks the life out of me. But in writing I only want to do nonfiction. I have never wanted to write a novel, but I enjoy explaining things in writing to people. I found myself spending a lot of time in forums and emails trying to help people. Hey, I thought, people get paid to do this sort of thing. I think they're called tech writers. It's weird, this person whose dream was to be a Hollywood director also enjoys writing user manuals. That job dovetailed into computer programming, which I never thought I would enjoy, because I misunderstood what it was. Right now I am content to do programming as my job and film as my hobby.

Do others have this dual interest? If you're passionate about film, is there a secondary, almost unrelated thing that you also like doing --- maybe you like it less but you are much more likely to get a job doing it?
 
Speaking personally, all my “passions” /real interests/things that really get me off are unfortunately of the pie in the sky, “good luck” variety. Filmmaking, music, I guess improv to some degree. Sure, being in the right cover band might be a lot of fun...and they can make real money—maybe I’ll give that a go at some point (though I worry the amount of time invested to get really good could make it feel like a chore, and all to play someone else’s music)—but I don’t have anything I LOVE that is easy or even possible without a lot of luck etc. as mentioned above to monetize. I get some satisfaction from shooting, gripping, editing, etc. (moreso on more artistic projects) but it’s a very distant second. Maybe I’ll get a head injury some day and spontaneously develop a real interest in aircraft repair? One can dream.
 
"Passion" is derived from the word "passive." The Greeks thought of passions as things that happened to you involuntarily. You didn't "chase" a passion. You simply were moved by your passion. So your passion is where you are already putting in your effort. Effort = passion.
 
I think that the tasks that are most gratifying and cause you to expend effort over and over are what mihaly csikszentmihalyi calls flow. It describes a state of losing one’s self in the task. Simple. These are activities we most enjoy.

Passion and “dreams.” The whole notion is so unfortunate. There is no one thing you were “meant” to do. You will change. Start with what makes you curious. There’s good stuff in there.

How did we get the idea that you had to be good at something anyway? What about amateurs? Should every young girl or boy stop taking ballet because they won’t dance at Lincoln Center? Should every musician just stop picking up the guitar because they will never tour?

Go where your pleasure tends.

Mark Cuban you are welcome to play in a pick up basketball game. Should we disband all softball leagues because the players will never where the pinstripes. Why on earth, does everything we do have to take us to the top of the heap? It’s all so tiresome. It is all so ego driven and hyperbolic.

Just because you like to do it does not mean that you need to make a living at it. Do it anyway and if you suck then so what? Try again. You may suck marginally less next time. And if you’re enjoying your time doing it then keep on sucking at it. Good on ya!

Francis Ford Coppola has a winery that supports his art. He’s a pretty good filmmaker, no? It is only in the past couple of hundred years that artists got paid at all.
 
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Mark Cuban is absolutely right. He's woefully wrong. He has some good points. He has some blind spots. Etc.

The upshot? (1)We are all different. Which is why it is hard to give general "big picture life advice" that applies to everyone. There will be those, to whom Cuban's advice speaks, hits the spot (Barry, apparently). But for Bob, Joe or Marsha, who are *completely* different personalities, Cuban might sound like a Martian. Everybody needs advice tailored to them specifically, individually. Sure, people fall into groups, so it's not literally one-on-one, but again, the more tailored it is, the harder it will hit, and the more useful it will be.

(2)For a ton of people, even giving very valid advice is useless, because it is not fully understandable. You may understand all the words, but you don't *really* understand in a way that's implementable. My favorite example is when people ask me which screenwriting books they should read. I tell them, don't bother *studying* any particular book. Just scan it quickly, and then WRITE a screenplay, and maybe write 2-3 of them. And only AFTER you'ver written the screenplays, THEN read how to write screenplays - those books will be ten times more valuable and useful to you. So if you give "good" advice to a person, how do you know they are in a position to use it? You don't.

(3)People rarely take advice, no matter how good. I have a friend who regularly skypes with me, asking various questions about which computer, phone, camera, lenses etc. he should buy. I carefully analyze and put forward the options and my final recommendation. Then more often than not, he does NOT take my advice, and down the road, is disappointed with his choices. I was puzzled and annoyed by his behavior "why bother asking me, if you're just gonna ignore it". It took me a while to catch on. He wasn't *really* interested in my advice - he wanted me to *validate* a choice he already made privately for himself. He wanted my permission to indulge his preferences, and to be flattered that "he's right". That way, if I happened to agree with his initial inclination, he'd feel validated, but at the same time, if it turned out badly, he has someone *other* than himself to blame. He needed me as both a validator, and a scapegoat. Of course, all this was unconcious on his part, but nonetheless, it taught me a lot about "giving advice".

(4)Lou Reed and John Cale made a fantastic album called "Songs for Drella". It's basically a tribute to the life of Andy Warhol, and a goodbye from his close friends when he died. Andy was a remarkably astute observer of human behavior. There are many amazing quotations from Andy on that album. One of my favorite ones, which I have occasion to use at least a couple of times a month, is "You can't tell people anything". This is so piercingly true. You can't tell people anything - they won't listen, or they'll listen but not really hear, or they'll have a thousand other ways of approaching what you said or your advice... but for the most part, almost always, they'll disregard your most heartfelt advice. Something I have had occasion to experience on these boards here very, very, very frequently - where people will actually grow hostile, even though what I've told them has been something hard won through bitter experience, something I share freely. Because... "you can't tell people anything".

And that's my attitude toward Mark Cuban's words of wisdom, such as they may be. It really doesn't matter if he's right, or wrong, or partly right or whatnot. Because, Mark, "you can't tell people anything". All IMHO, and YMMV.
 
It's not that I disagree with the post, it's just that this counter-summary is how I personally define passion...

Barry_Green said:
Another way of saying what he's saying -- writers write. That's all they do, because that's all they want to do, that's all they can do, that's all they will do... they can't not write.
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Follow the effort... well, I put effort into the things I'm passionate about...

I'd say, instead, follow the skill, and put effort into your identified skills, and then watch yourself becoming increasingly passionate... we become passionate about what we do, so long as we're good at it.

It's when you have a delta between skill and effort that you have a problem.
 
hscully said:
I think that the tasks that are most gratifying and cause you to expend effort over and over are what mihaly csikszentmihalyi calls flow. It describes a state of losing one’s self in the task. Simple. These are activities we most enjoy.

Passion and “dreams.” The whole notion is so unfortunate. There is no one thing you were “meant” to do. You will change. Start with what makes you curious. There’s good stuff in there.

How did we get the idea that you had to be good at something anyway? What about amateurs? Should every young girl or boy stop taking ballet because they won’t dance at Lincoln Center? Should every musician just stop picking up the guitar because they will never tour?

Go where your pleasure tends.

Mark Cuban you are welcome to play in a pick up basketball game. Should we disband all softball leagues because the players will never where the pinstripes. Why on earth, does everything we do have to take us to the top of the heap? It’s all so tiresome. It is all so ego driven and hyperbolic.

Just because you like to do it does not mean that you need to make a living at it. Do it anyway and if you suck then so what? Try again. You may suck marginally less next time. And if you’re enjoying your time doing it then keep on sucking at it. Good on ya!

Francis Ford Coppola has a winery that supports his art. He’s a pretty good filmmaker, no? It is only in the past couple of hundred years that artists got paid at all.
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I think the idea is generally that if we enjoy something it would be awesome to do it for money/a living, rather than working 40+ hours every week at something we are not excited about or even hate, and then in our precious spare time, do the thing we like (when we're tired/recovering from doing the thing we're not excited about). That doesn't always turn out to be true, as sometimes what was fun/engaging in small doses itself becomes hated once done for 40+ hours week in and week out.
 
Josh Bass said:
I think the idea is generally that if we enjoy something it would be awesome to do it for money/a living, rather than working 40+ hours every week at something we are not excited about or even hate, and then in our precious spare time, do the thing we like (when we're tired/recovering from doing the thing we're not excited about). That doesn't always turn out to be true, as sometimes what was fun/engaging in small doses itself becomes hated once done for 40+ hours week in and week out.
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Yep, exactly. I think this is an important point but there is no mechanism in the job market to accommodate your passions or dreams. It is up to you to manage a useful compromise. To adapt, or more precisely to specialize. The joy comes in finding what is essential and seeing if you can find a job that enables that for you.

I love shooting stuff. I write, I direct, I self-produce short films that make bupkiss. A worthless passion! Move on! No. I make money shooting interviews and playing video monkey for others. What’s essential? Lighting and framing shots. I love that regardless of the context. When my eye is on the on-camera monitor or EVF framing a shot, I’m in heaven!

Another: In the eighties I became infinitely curious about how windows worked. I had a full time job and in my spare time bought a computer, learned the software, etc. Still not enough to satisfy my curiousity I went back to college to study computer science at night. It took seven years. Finally I got into that business. What was essential? Solving knotty problems and oddly, typing. Writing code was a flow experience for me and I love to type. Bingo! I’m not coding currently as I’m on to other stuff. It was good to us.

I’m an actor. I have been almost all my life. It’s not always lucrative and it’s very competitive. The large majority of us have to work jobs. I’ve always admired fellow actor’s willingness to do so, so often without complaint. Musicians too. So we do low budget indies and regional theater and take classes and do scene study at night to keep our chops up and once in a while we book a job. Sometimes it’s great. I just did a big feature with A list actors and an A list director and as a result am now a member of SAG /AFTRA.

That’s the way of it as far as I know. No one owes us a living.

Maybe when the AIs take over and we’re all on Basic Minimum Income we can just entertain our passions. Careful what you wish for! Kinda sounds boring to me.
 
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Let me boil it down to the base. Be able to recognize when you suck at something and be able to move on to something that you are good at doing. At least as far as career/work goes.
 
Mark's advice to me sounds like: cheap wine is good because it's good and cheap.
The problem with those let-me-give-you-life's-answer gurus is that ultimately it kills the big dream.
My 2 year old is into rocket ships so we watched "Apollo 13." I sit in my chair as my kid points the finger in the sky saying "rocket, rocket" and think that 45 years ago engineers dreamed how to put man on another planet (ok, Moon) while noways they think up ways how to score big $$ with some crappy phone app that turns your eyes into balloons.
I'm not for saying "follow your dream" because to be frank most people are VERY comfortable with others creating that dream for them. That said, this general propensity for simplifying the "big dream" and only thinking about mini-goals smells of some conspiracy theory concocted in mind of some mega machine that simply doesn't want us to dream beyond being nods in the vast system.
 
Patryk_Rebisz said:
I sit in my chair as my kid points the finger in the sky saying "rocket, rocket" and think that 45 years ago engineers dreamed how to put man on another planet (ok, Moon) while noways they think up ways how to score big $$ with some crappy phone app that turns your eyes into balloons.
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Yeah, too many people today follow the money instead of the things that give them wonder.

I'd say, follow your wonder to the point where it intersects with skill. At that point, invest all of your effort there.

It may or may not make you rich, but if it can make you a decent living, it will like you make you a deeply satisfied person with a strong sense of purpose.
 
Josh Bass said:
I think the idea is generally that if we enjoy something it would be awesome to do it for money/a living, rather than working 40+ hours every week at something we are not excited about or even hate, and then in our precious spare time, do the thing we like (when we're tired/recovering from doing the thing we're not excited about). That doesn't always turn out to be true, as sometimes what was fun/engaging in small doses itself becomes hated once done for 40+ hours week in and week out.
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I have several friends who do jobs that don't sound like a lot of fun and they admittedly say that "my work is so boring, I wish I had your job" to me. Almost every friend thinks I have the ultimate cool job, and in some ways I do. But in the end, they make considerably more money than I do, have better job security, retirement, nicer houses, possessions, take more vacations than I do and don't have to struggle nearly as much as I do to survive, much less succeed. I guess the net result is that my work is more fun, I love doing it, but I make less and enjoy life away from work less than they tend to. Perhaps we look at work too closely and tend to ignore work/life balance as a whole existence? I don't have a lot of regret in my chosen path but it seems like I have to stress more, day to day. I have had corporate positions in the past and there is something nice about just "going to work" instead of having to constantly hunt for work. But it does get boring while my job is never boring.
 
I think it depends what you value more in life. Some folks are happy working wherever as long as they can come home every day and be with family and fish on the weekends or whatever. Some have passions they wish they could monetize and all the family and fishing in the world will not fill the void in their souls from that lack of fulfillment.
 
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