Marantz pmf661 failed...again

S

scottfs

Well-known member
I purchased a Marantz pmd661 five years ago. It had a chip fail after two years of light use. I paid to get it fixed, and it's worked well. The sound quality is good (but I don't have golden ears like many have here).

Well, I've been using a lot this summer, used it on Sunday, no problem. I showed up on set last night, powered it up...got an error code. Wouldn't work. 35 people are waiting, and I can't get the damned thing to work. Tried different cards, powered it on and off, everything.

Of course I had a backup recorder, but this whole thing put us back by 20 minutes, the director starts getting angry because we are running up against a deadline.

So, I'm looking for a new recorder. No more with that thing!

Budget about $1,500 so. I primarily record dialog on set, sometimes foley and ambient sound, once in a while a choir or small ensemble.

Want the best I can get for this budget? Reliability is now extremely important now.

What's the best way to go?
 
Sound Devices, Zaxcom and Nagra recorders are well-known for their reliability..You could probably pick up a used Sound Devices 702 or 722 for around that, if you don't need more than two tracks. The great pre-amps and limiters are a bonus.
 
Well... That is a handheld recorder designed for rehearsal recording and some wild radio work so ...
And it cost very little. Rick is right about SD Zaxcom, etc but they are also many times the price. And they are many levels more complicated.

So are you a sound person who will really take the time to practice and use your equipment on a regular basis? Or are you going to use it every once in awhile and forget to have a manual handy?

My point is that a LOT of radio producers have used a 661 on a regular basis and not had a problem. So you may want to look at the "user error" aspect before dropping $$$$$ on a new recorder. The ones listed are significantly better, but they also have settings far beyond what yo have dealt with with a 661. So if the problem is figuring out how to set it up the $$$ recorders are going to be a bad choice.
 
Also BTW it is Foley, always capitalized. I doubt you are recording Foley, you probably are talking about FX. Portable recorders are pretty useless for Foley since it is recorded in sync with picture.
 
I had a (1st gen) Marantz 660 for 3 or 4 years and it always worked perfectly, but it wasn't used for run & gun. I recorded EDU seminars and fed it line in. (-10dB via the 3.5mm unbalanced line in) I was actually somewhat impressed at it's reliability, must have recorded 400 or more of those all-day seminars, never a hiccup, and I would know since I did the edits, mastered and re-recorded for cassette duplication.
 
Noiz2 said:
Well... That is a handheld recorder designed for rehearsal recording and some wild radio work so ...
And it cost very little. Rick is right about SD Zaxcom, etc but they are also many times the price. And they are many levels more complicated.

So are you a sound person who will really take the time to practice and use your equipment on a regular basis? Or are you going to use it every once in awhile and forget to have a manual handy?

My point is that a LOT of radio producers have used a 661 on a regular basis and not had a problem. So you may want to look at the "user error" aspect before dropping $$$$$ on a new recorder. The ones listed are significantly better, but they also have settings far beyond what yo have dealt with with a 661. So if the problem is figuring out how to set it up the $$$ recorders are going to be a bad choice.
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It's not user error, thank you very much. I've used this recorder probably 120 or more shoot days. It failed about three years ago, and has worked well since then, I know how to use it, and as you pointed out, it's not very complicated.
 
What about...

Tascam DR-680MKII
Tascam DR-701D
ZoomF8
Roland R44

These are in my price range.

Yes, Sound Devices 633 would be wonderful. Will you buy it for me? Please?
 
The Roland R-44 is quite outdated. It can make good recordings, but the physical design is a little odd. I think the feature set at or below that price point has been surpassed by other, newer offering. The DR-680mkII offers more for less.

The DR-701D would be a great deal if the time code wasn't so dreadfully unstable. Might as well go with the DR-70D instead, but even that gets mixed reviews.

THE DR-680mkII is a great machine if you don't need time code. It's especially great if you have a good mixer in front (like the Sound Devices 442).

The F8 is one with which I don't have any experience. Reviews have been mostly positive, but it has its quirks. Time code is reported to be very solid.
 
I concur w/ Alex . I used a 680 on a 64-day feature film shoot, about half of it, run & gun style in a bag and it worked without issue, including humid 95+ degree days. The preamps are not top shelf quality, but decent. It's also one of the few recorders that totally by-pass the inputs preamp in line mode. It will eat through the eight AA internal batteries in no time, so an external battery system was an absolute. It had a few odd quirks to get used too as well.The mkII allegedly has better power economy and and improved preamps. No TC though.
The 701 has TC capabilities, but it must have an external LTC feed.
I haven't used an F8 for any length of time, but is regarded as 'decent' by some pro film sound colleagues I trust.
 
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scottfs said:
It's not user error, thank you very much. I've used this recorder probably 120 or more shoot days. It failed about three years ago, and has worked well since then, I know how to use it, and as you pointed out, it's not very complicated.
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It wasn't a snarky comment 99.99% of the time it is user error. When something isn't working the first question I ask my self is what did I do wrong.

"Knowing how to use it" does not exclude user error. I've worked with and "know" many systems and I would still look to my self first as the weakest link.

BTW what was the error code? It would probably tell you a lot about what the problem is.

But assuming it's dead and with your budget I would aim at getting something that is better.

There are a couple of directions you could take. First off though, considering your problems with the 661 you should consider how rough your gear gets treated. Not a loaded question and certainly not one you need to answer publicly, but if the 661 showed a lot of wear then I would aim for a used 702 since they are real tanks.

If the 661 looks like it's hardly been touched then fragility is probably not an issue. All of the other recorders are some grade of consumer gear and generally less forgiving of rough conditions. The 701d is probably pretty tough and the F8 should be pretty tough but Zoom has a bad history with fragility so I would probably wait till more in the field reports come back.

I was looking at a new recorder recently because a gig started talking about TC and I have occasional use for more than two tracks. The 701d was a high contender till I looked close at the TC feature. It needs to jam to something to get TC in the first place and it drifts a ridiculous amount so IF you are constantly jamming TC it's a decent option but other wise it's not really usable for TC. The F8 has other issues but it was on my short list. I would have just jumped on it except for my previous experiences with Zoom products.

Tascam puts out fairly frequent firmware updates usually with new products so the TC drift may be fixable.

680 I hear eats batteries, but otherwise is supposed to be good. It has a plastic body so there is that fragility issue if it is used in rough conditions, though I haven't really heard of any complaints about breakage. My primary recorder has a plastic case and it hasn't been an issue. I primarily record FX so my gear gets rougher treatment than most production gear would. The R44 also eats batteries, has a really weird orientation and is way past it's prime.

With any of the under $1k recorders you might want to consider getting a used MixPre as a front end.

If you plan to use more than two tracks a lot then not such a great deal but if you are mostly going to be using two tracks then the MixPre has the advantage of great limiters. All the recorders above (except the 702) have digital limiters that don't help much if at all with preamp overloads. Some seem better than others at dealing with that clipping but none can actually prevent it. You can probably find a used MixPre (original model) for under $500.
 
OK, here's a puzzle: Doug Oade suggested I update the firmware. To do that, you have to plug in AC power.

In AC, the recorder works! On battery, no.

I checked and the settings are fine.

Have no idea what is going on...
 
Perhaps the switching regulator or some other part of your recorder's power supply is busted. Just a guess.

Maybe ask Oade? Great place for all things Marantz, as you know, and they may have seen or heard of the problem before. And they might know how expensive (or possible) a repair would be...even if it's not a repair they'd want to do themselves.

Dang. Good luck and let us know what you learn.


Jim "Marantz PMD620 backup/transcription recorder still running fine" Feeley
 
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Probably a yes, but have you tried swapping out the batteries for known good ones? I just had a 9V semi dead fresh out of the package, made the wireless act very strange.
 
Noiz2 said:
Probably a yes, but have you tried swapping out the batteries for known good ones? I just had a 9V semi dead fresh out of the package, made the wireless act very strange.
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Of course! I've tried everything. I've contacted Doug Oade and he has no suggestions beyond updating the firmware which was updated years ago to the latest firmware.

I'm stuck. I've got to buy something else.
 
scottfs said:
Of course! I've tried everything. I've contacted Doug Oade and he has no suggestions beyond updating the firmware which was updated years ago to the latest firmware.

I'm stuck. I've got to buy something else.
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It sound like some part of the battery power supply bit the dust, probably the voltage converter but? On a box like that there isn't a lot of repair options except opening it up yourself, and that is often not a real option.
Even boxes that are generally reliable die at some point so yes you probably do need to buy something else. And as much as I don't think the Marantz is a POS in general if I had one fail me twice I would also be looking at other brands.

There are good options above. If it were me today I would probably do some heavy looking at the Zoom F8. And that is a company that I have a history with a bit like yours and Marantz so that is hard for me to say.

The reason is basically that it has features that would allow me to say yes to more gigs than I can now. For my primary use (FX Recording) I'm fine right now but I just did a gig where I was well over the specs but I would have been a lot happier if I had a bunch more tracks and the final camera man (they went through three) would have been happier if I could have jam synced with him. We got along but if I had had a bit more on the set I would have been closer to getting on his "list".

It may be a long time before that need comes up again but I would like to be ready. And the F8 is about what my two track recorder was when I bought it. Also Zoom has been doing firmware updates that have dealt with a number of issues that users had and seem determined to make a "professional" tool for location recording. If I had the $ I would probably be looking at either the HS-P82 which at about 2.5X the price is a really nice box at a reasonable price.
 
More on the story: I let this thing sit, pondering my options, and low and behold, it is now, somehow, fixed. Maybe when I told it it would be replaced...

I did a firmware update, but the firmware seemed up-to-date. I'm not sure what has been going on, but I used it on a shoot the past weekend and worked like a charm. Zero problems.

I did not suspect a battery problem because battery indicator read full, and they were freshly charged batteries.

I have a backup pmd660, and it works fine. I also carry a Zoom h4 which is OK except the led screen does not stay on.

Magical thinking at work here, maybe.
 
AhHa, You didn't mention that you were using rechargeable batteries. That may be your problem. NiMh batteries don't have a full metal positive end. They have a metal button in the middle of a plastic disk. Some battery holders (like the original MixPre) have the spring at the positive side "capture" the button. With that style of spring you can get unlucky and have the spring surround the button with out actually touching it. On a norman battery this is fine since the whole top is metal but on NiMh rechargeable's you could be sitting on the plastic and not making contact. With the MixPre you could give it a tap and the batteries would reconect but it was a PITA. SD offered to replace the battery holders as a free fix when the issue was discovered.

Don't know but this sounds like it could be your issue.
 
Hmmm, maybe. Never had this problem in 5 years, but...

Maybe it's haunted.

In any case, it's still working fine. The whole experience soured on working with this particular director again, since he made a bad situation worse.
 
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